Removing white asbestos water tank

[Dr W]

I'm hoping there are some knowledgeable PWers out there who can advise on removal of a white asbestos water tank.

 

I'm buying a property which had a white asbestos water tank in the loft. I (as advised by surveyor) asked for this to be removed before we exchanged on property.

 

I thought they would use a specialist company to remove and so asked to see copy of invoice to show that it had been removed properly.

 

The vendors are not producing an invoice and are just saying that it was removed correctly according to the regulations.

 

My concern is that if they started cutting up the water tank in the loft to remove then there are now asbestos fibres in the loft space (I don't know if they did cut it up or removed it in one go but they're not being very helpful in answering questions).

 

My question is, is it ok to remove a white asbestos water tank yourself (rather than specialist company) and what should I check to make sure it was done properly?

 

Bit concerned but don't want to lose house over a trivial matter but don't want potentially deadly fibres in my loft (if there are any).

 

Thanks

[al4x]

presuming its the type within cement then it is an interesting conundrum, work on the assumption it must have been broken up to get it out. However you really won't know what if anything has been released fibre wise. If it is the cement type it is the "safest" type as most will have cement attached. In your case if you don't like it then about your only option is to pull out as it must have been removed by them which is legal I believe you just don't know what safeguards they took

[Mungler]

They would have done it themselves and burried it at the bottom of a skip.

 

Rather than worry get the loft looked at and get it cleared and re-insulated.

 

If the loft has a white asbestos tank in it I would hazard a guess that it needs "modernising".

 

I doubt the risks are susbstantial, but having it gnaw in your head is no good.

[markbivvy]

http://www.asbestoswatchdog.co.uk/resident...ntMaterials.pdf

[mick miller]

Hey, cheers for that link mark. I can now smash the proverbial granny out of the tank in the loft safe in the knowledge that I'm not going to kill myself. It's been sitting there getting in the way since we had the mega flow fitted. Plan was to slip a 1 tonne sack under it, wrap it up then set to with a sledge hammer but I always wondered whether that would be safe, now it looks like it is. Bonza!

[al4x]

some of that link was bull Mark, you may be under no legal right to remove it before a house sale but the buyer can say whatever they like its their money. Mick be sensible with it, personally I removed rather a large asbestos cement roof and was happy to do so though it cost £900 for the skip to take ity away we had to sort of do it by the book as the site was too visible for anything else.

Wear a dust mask and damp it first and if you can have it in a sack do. Personally i wouldn't take anyones word who said it was harmless stuff

[djgeoff]

I'm hoping there are some knowledgeable PWers out there who can advise on removal of a white asbestos water tank.

 

I'm buying a property which had a white asbestos water tank in the loft. I (as advised by surveyor) asked for this to be removed before we exchanged on property.

 

I thought they would use a specialist company to remove and so asked to see copy of invoice to show that it had been removed properly.

 

The vendors are not producing an invoice and are just saying that it was removed correctly according to the regulations.

 

My concern is that if they started cutting up the water tank in the loft to remove then there are now asbestos fibres in the loft space (I don't know if they did cut it up or removed it in one go but they're not being very helpful in answering questions).

 

My question is, is it ok to remove a white asbestos water tank yourself (rather than specialist company) and what should I check to make sure it was done properly?

 

Bit concerned but don't want to lose house over a trivial matter but don't want potentially deadly fibres in my loft (if there are any).

 

Thanks

 

ok i used to work for my local council as a sparky and was working closley with thier asbestos team about 7yrs ago.

as you have no records to see that it has been removed properly its only an assumption it has, so i would be on my guard.

 

There must be some sort of documention to say the air has been sampled before, during and after.

This was done by local saftey office in our case, i think a call to your local council might help.

 

You could call in your own saftey / asbestos company to sample the air in the loft but it expensive.

Breaking any asbestos is not the done thing in and enclosed area without the proper equipment and even then if it can be removed as a whole, it should be.

 

wrapped. sealed and labeled.

 

i know local councils have to keep a log of where asbestos is, when it it found, this may only apply to thier buildings and public places, ie shopping mals etc

 

if they have broken it up in your loft and u have fibre glass loft insulation its gonna be one hell of a clean to get rid of all asbestos material, and i should imagine fibre glass and asbestos fibres together would make it hard to do the fibre count when they do sample the air.

 

The contractor must have documentation to show how it was removed, how and where it was disposed of.

 

I Know some say well its white its ok............... um you whanna take the chance

we were told any asbestos is dangerous.

 

the company i work for now sent us on a asbestos awareness course in Birmingham 12months ago and now they say it ok to DRILL IT !!! with the correct equipment.

 

I dont care after years of working with this stuff no way, i dont give a toss what they say, ive come across it only two weeks ago when i had to remove a light and i noticed a label warning of asbestos content in the tile. my gaffer said u can carry on you have had the training, half mask white overhalls and a shadow vac.

(this light by the way is in a main hall way of a care home). i said well you do it then because i am not.

never heard another thing.

i think they changed the rules because it was to expensive to remove and they is so much of it about. ( thats my feelings)

 

1.Any way try your council.

 

2.Try to find the contractor and see documentation ( there used to be 3 or 4 carbon copies, 1 for customer , 1 for H.S.E , 1 for council)

 

3.get your own air sampling done

 

if you intend going in your loft where the proper mask not any old b&Q dust mask will do! nylon boiler suit fibres dont stick to them, wipe yourself down with damp cloth whilst in loft before you come out of loft. And dont use any old vacum cleaner you will make things worse fans will blow air around you house, there is a proper one that does the job.

 

sorry i cant be of any more help but it has been some time since i last done asbestos removal

 

i will try and find my cert for the course we went on and i will post details on forum for you

regards

geoff

[dorianbuilders]

I had a couple of issues with asbestos myself last year, one being the nasty type, insulation board containing brown asbestos where the client had removed it themselves and left it in a pile of rubble on the floor, I had to inform an asbestos removal specialist who then had to contact the HSE who put a closure on the house for 2 weeks to sort it, no one in or out! We got this reduced with a groveling letter from the customer to the HSE and the company came in cleared it up did some air tests and £2000 and a scene I can only describe as ET like we were able to carry on.

 

Then I came across some cement based stuff in a garage that we had to take out, got this tested to make sure it was what we thought and under the advise of the test company we removed it our selves by painting it with a strong PVA solution easing it down ten wrapping it in heavy gauge DPM and disposing it at a suitable plant.

 

I'm led to believe that the cement based one is fairly safe until you break it when it can release fibers into the air, so therefore I would suggest if you believe that they have broken it up to remove it then this could be possible and I would advise getting a reputable company in to test for fibers on the surfaces for peace of mind, they will be able to show you the results and advise on a solution.

 

You can't mess with your health, I say as I sit here recovering from a broken leg!

 

Adrian

[Punt Gun]

Make sure you use a mask, and the mask has to be rated "P3", which is rated for asbestos.

 

Funny enough you find asbestos in many things within the home, artex, the old cords of sash windows. Usually there isn't much of a hazard until it is tampered with, when it gets disturbed.

 

Just make sure you have a P3 rated mask.

 

 

some of that link was bull Mark, you may be under no legal right to remove it before a house sale but the buyer can say whatever they like its their money. Mick be sensible with it, personally I removed rather a large asbestos cement roof and was happy to do so though it cost £900 for the skip to take ity away we had to sort of do it by the book as the site was too visible for anything else.

Wear a dust mask and damp it first and if you can have it in a sack do. Personally i wouldn't take anyones word who said it was harmless stuff

[al4x]

I have to say with mine I ordered a covered skip and wrapped everything, got an open skip and the driver was quite happy to say it just goes into the bottom of the pile in landfill, they didn't cover it or anything to take it away,

[dorianbuilders]

The white stuff doesn't need all that legislation anyone can remove it using the correct procedure and guidelines so i'd be surprised if you can get any test, dumping info from them.

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/essentials/

 

This may help you decide, its the guide lines we used from the HSE.

 

Adrian

[djgeoff]

I have to say with mine I ordered a covered skip and wrapped everything, got an open skip and the driver was quite happy to say it just goes into the bottom of the pile in landfill, they didn't cover it or anything to take it away,

driver is leaving himself open to be done for that, documention has to be signed........... silly chap but theres loads that will do it! and if i recall it does end up at a land fill but theres a record that its there and not down your nearest local lane

Edited August 4, 2010 by djgeoff

[mick miller]

I need to break mine to get it out of the loft hatch, spraying it with water sounds a good idea and the plan was (once it was out of the way) to completely replace the loft insulation. I would need to do that much smashing but I would of course wear a mask, nylon suit may be a good idea too, at the very least a disposable boiler suit. Sorry for the thread hijack OP!

[vampire]

We never remove the tanks from lofts,just wrap em up in polythene,if they have done it themselves or got a mate to do it then you will not get any paper work and may have spores in the loft/house.

I have stripped a customers roof and disposed of to local tip (legal),tip provided ppe and paper work £60 per 1/4 tonne,having said all that i do not touch it anymore and turned down two jobs in july because of the stuff,just dont need the risk.

On a related subject,the house you are buying will prob have asbestos in the artex if the ceilings are patterned,scraped and plastered to many of these in my time

[djgeoff]

I need to break mine to get it out of the loft hatch, spraying it with water sounds a good idea and the plan was (once it was out of the way) to completely replace the loft insulation. I would need to do that much smashing but I would of course wear a mask, nylon suit may be a good idea too, at the very least a disposable boiler suit. Sorry for the thread hijack OP!

 

not just water mix with pva glue, no need to go mad with the stuff just a mist to dampen the air to keep any fibres down , spraying the wrapped asbestos bag as well

[paulf]

Ive done the ocasional job with asbestos eg replacing storm damadged big 6 sheets and once or twice drilling soffits to fit lights. Nylon overalls, full face mask and P3 respirator, spray with small hozelock sprayer and get on with it, double bag and dispose at transfer staion.

 

Its the easiest thing in the world to just smash it, but its only years later that it may come back and bite, take care with it.

 

My grandfather died of asbestos related cancer, no way I would wish it on anyone.

[wingnut]

As some of you know i work as a health and safety trainer/instructor and can not believe some of the stuff i have just read on this thread and felt i had to add my 2 pence worth, part of my job entails doing a fair bit of research about various harmful substances, and then putting a course together about that product, and one of my pet hates is asbestos and all the hype and bs that surrounds it.

 

Just to set the record straight about asbestos

 

THE 1st RECORDED DEATH DUE TO ASBESTOSIS WAS REPORTED IN THE ROCHDALE TIMES IN 1924 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

ALL TYPES OF ASBESTOS ARE NOW DEEMED DANGEROUS (BLUE,BROWN AND WHITE)

 

BLUE AND BROWN BANNED IN 1985, WHITE BANNED IN 1999

 

PROPERTIES OF ASBESTOS

 

ASBESTOS IS A MINERAL (a rock)

 

1 x 2cm CUBE OF ASBESTOS CONTAINS 15,000,000 MILES OF FIBRES IF YOU SPLIT THE FIBRES AND LAID THEM END TO END

 

1 FIBRE MAY BE ALL THAT IS NEEDED TO CAUSE A PROBLEM FOR SOME ONE

 

IT CAN TAKE BETWEEN 10----30 YEARS FOR SYMPTOMS TO SHOW

 

ACID DOES NOT DESTROY IT, WEATHER, SUN , WIND, OR RAIN WILL NOT HARM IT & IT WILL WITHSTAND DIRECT TEMPERATURES IN EXCESS OF 950 CENTIGRADE

 

MAGIC MINERAL TO KILLER DUST, ITS THE DUST YOU DON'T SEE THAT CAUSES THE PROBLEMS

 

THE FIBRES THAT ARE INHALED GO DEEP INTO LUNG TISSUE AND REMAIN THERE, EVERY TIME YOU BREATHE IN AND OUT THEY MOVE, AND AS THEY ARE VERY SHARP THEY CAN CAUSE SCARRING OF THE LUNG TISSUE (ASBESTOSIS), YOUR BODY TRIES TO FIGHT BACK, (LUNG CANCER CAUSED BY EXPOSURE TO ASBESTOS) AND IF YOU ARE REALLY UNLUCKY YOU COULD DEVELOP MESOTHELIOMA ( THIS DESTROYS THE LINING AROUND THE LUNG, OR IF YOU SWALLOW SOME ON FOOD, IT COULD CAUSE MESOTHELIOMA AROUND THE LINING OF YOU INTESTINES.

 

NOT ALL ASBESTOS IS CLEARLY MARKED, THIS IS WHY THERE ARE STILL SO MANY PEOPLE BEING AFFECTED BY IT

 

NOT ALL ASBESTOS MATERIALS REQUIRE LICENCED CONTRACTORS TO REMOVE IT

 

AND IT IS MOST DANGEROUS WHEN THE FIBRES ARE DISTURBED.

 

 

ARTEX STANDS FOR ASBESTOS TEXTURED MATERIAL

 

IF YOUR HOUSE, OR PLACE OF WORK WAS BUILT / REFURBISHED BEFORE THE YEAR 2000 THERE IS A STRONG POSSIBILITY THAT ASBESTOS CONTAINING MATERIALS (ACM) ARE PRESENT

 

There are upto 5000 people a year dying EVERY YEAR in this country (and its predicted to rise), from asbestos related diseases , thats more than all the victims of road accidents in th UK and look how much publicity that recieves.

 

The vast majority of these people work in domestic properties, plumbers, electricians, window fitters, roofers, painters & decorators they just do not realise that asbestos, and asbestos containing materials are present, or fail to carry out the proper procedures when working with these materials

 

I strongly urge any one contemplating the removal of asbestos to consult the guidance notes on HSE Website

 

www.hse.gov.uk

 

AND FOR SPECIFIC GUIDANCE

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/essentials/

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/guidance/a11.pdf

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/guidance/a14.pdf

 

 

Also while doing reseach on Asbestos, i came across documents that have suggested that carbon fibre is going to be as bad as asbestos ( it has the same properties) over the coming years.

 

I have just spent 16 years cutting drilling and sanding that stuff, the data sheets claimed it was harmless, Oh well, same as asbestos then.

 

Sorry for the rant, its just that in my line of work i hear horror stories every day from guys like you and me who have lost some one to this god damn awfull disease, and the last thing i would want is for some else to be affected by it.

 

 

Andy

[Guest gloker]

Make sure you use a mask, and the mask has to be rated "P3", which is rated for asbestos.

 

Funny enough you find asbestos in many things within the home, artex, the old cords of sash windows. Usually there isn't much of a hazard until it is tampered with, when it gets disturbed.

 

Just make sure you have a P3 rated mask.

 

As in a previous thread Ive got a load of these (Well my dad has!)

[Dr W]

Thanks for all the responses guys, funny that opinions vary from don't go into the loft ever again to smash the hell out of it with a lump hammer.

 

Strangely enough when I got into work this morning there was a long (fairly shirty) email from the vendor saying that they had fully followed the regulations and sent me the same links from HSE website and disposed of it carefully and did I really think that with kids in the house they'd do anything dangerous to just sell a house etc etc....

 

If they'd just said all this and sent me the links I'd have been fine but it was their refusal to answer the question of how it had been removed that concerned me.

 

Lesson of the day it's a lot easier to just talk to a vendor about concerns than continuously going through solicitors (no offence to any solicitors but it does tend to slow the whole process down).

[al4x]

half the problem is there are a lot of contractors out there feeding on the word "Asbestos" I had a piece of new fireboard sitting in a shared piece of garden a neighbour assumed was asbestos. They got quoted £200 to remove it and tried to make me do it it was 30cm by 60cm and that was before the fact it was bought well after the point you could buy asbestos and was asbestos free :blink:

[mick miller]

Wingnuts post has me worried, as kids we used to play dens in an asbestos coal bunker, played footy against an asbestos fence, and threw our food scraps into an asbestos box compost heap. Not to mention having the house de-nibbed of Artex recently and replastered, plus all the work I did round wellheads, removing all the lagging and fire retardants when I worked offshore. :look:

[paulf]

Wingnuts post has me worried, as kids we used to play dens in an asbestos coal bunker, played footy against an asbestos fence, and threw our food scraps into an asbestos box compost heap. Not to mention having the house de-nibbed of Artex recently and replastered, plus all the work I did round wellheads, removing all the lagging and fire retardants when I worked offshore. :look:

 

 

It would be the work with the lagging that would woory me, lagging is one of the most dangerouse forms as it is pure asbestos