Buying a gun in the US\Canada

[JonD]

Hi All,

 

Has anyone bought a gun in the US or Canada? If the plan works out well i'll be in a position to buy the lifetime gun I want but the prices here are silly so going out to the US or Canada makes financial sense.

 

Can anyone offer any advice on how hard it is? I know I'll have to declare it at customs when I arrive then the UK and have them write it onto my SGC but not sure of the process. I'm thinking Canada may be easier as a Commonwealth country.

 

I'm looking at a Kriegoff K80 Pro Rib Sporter so if anyone knows how to get one in the UK without paying rip off Britain prices it would be appreciated.

 

Cheers,

 

Jon.

[Clamps]

I would like to know the answer to this also. I did think about this a few years back but I was concerned with all the potential red tape.

[seeker]

There are threads on this already.

Its not as straight forward as once long ago ...

1st hurdle is being able to purchase it as a non - resident and then any local rules /costs on posession and transportation from the country ..

20% vat also narrows the gap ... but there's still a margin.

Nothings impossible if you follow the paper/permit trail. But as you say, the price gap makes it an attractive idea.

Hopefully someone will have a link to the other threads.

[Rem223]

Buying in the US is going to involve a lot of paperwork and expense. It would be somewhat easier to buy in Canada but you need a firearms license to buy one and I don't think non residents can get one. You might want to get in touch with a dealer. I have seena lot of positive feedback on this company http://www.prophetriver.com/online/ They specialise in importing firearms into Canada from the US and I imagine they could give you some helpful advice. You are supposed to get an export license to export rifles from Canada. They grant this when they get a copy of the import license but it is quite easy as they consider the FAC as an import license. Oh and if the rifle is non European it will be duty at probably 4-5% plus VAT at 20% of the purchase price plus duty. These robbing scoundrels want their pound of flesh.

[John_R]

To make a personal export from the USA of firearms and related stuff you need an export licence and some other document that I forget the name of. It takes time to set up and about $400 or so for a one year period.

 

I am in the USA right now, I travel here frequently, and had been hoping to bring back a bunch of reloading stuff amongst other things. I was shocked to learn that even brass cases are now on the list of restricted items. I had also toyed with getting a nice stock for my HMR, but the one I wanted was also restricted, as well as rifle scopes that have a mildot or other military style of reticle.

 

Needless to say I gave up on that idea and purchased simpler items such as the tools for reloading, some gun care products, calls, etc.

 

On another related note, it varies from state to state how easy it is even for a US Cit to purchase a gun. Where I am working right now, if you walk into a gun store you make your purchase and must go away and return 10 days later to collect it (called the Cool Off period).

[phaedra1106]

John, I don't know who told you brass cases are retricted but they are 100% wrong.

 

EDIT. Also totally wrong about the scopes, only scopes that are restricted are those for military use, there is no concise definition for this but generaly any scope with electronic image enhancement is not permitted. Recticle makes no difference, a lot of people assume Mil-Dot means "Military Dot" when in fact it's not the case, Mil-Dot recticle scopes are allowed, I brought 2 back with me last October.

 

 

I also go to the US a few times a year and on my two last trips I brought back a load of reloading kit, I contacted both the ATF (useless) and TSA about it beforehand, here's the reply I eventually got from the TSA,

 

 

Thank you for electronic message of October 26, 2010, to the

Transportation Security Administration Contact Center asking about the

transport of a reloading press, a powder scale, and other items aboard

commercial aircraft.

 

The reloading press, dies, powder scale, empty un-primed brass

cartridge cases, bullet heads, rifle scopes, and bullets are permitted

in checked baggage. We do recommend, however, that you carry the rifle

scopes through the screening checkpoint since these items are permitted

in the aircraft cabin. Doing so would afford the item better protection

against potential damage.

 

I hope this information is helpful.

 

Sincerely yours,

 

 

 

Chad Bash

Acting Deputy General

Manager

for Mission Support

Office of Security

Operations

 

 

 

I had previously checked the relevant statutes and they clearly state that reloading equipment and components (excluding primers and powders) are not covered by the restrictions. I brought 2 suitcases of gear back and strandely this was the only trip in the last 10 years I can remember where none of our luggage was opened and inspected, no nice "We have opened your case to look through your undies" note in any of the cases

Edited April 10, 2011 by phaedra1106

[onefulham]

I know a bit vague, but I remember reading in one of the shooting mags at a mates, an advert for a gun shop in the Dallas area of Texas, looked a huge posh place, and there was a mention of bringing guns to the Uk, sorry I cannot remember which mag but sure it was in this or last months ones, maybe someone else saw it?

[phaedra1106]

Basic rules are, resident in the US for 90 days (need to be able to show proof of this) and need to apply for an export license to take any firearm out of the US. As the normal visa waiver scheme only allows you to stay in the US for 90 days at a time this is a bit of a problem!, if you have a full visa/non-resident alien/employment visa and can stay longer it makes things easier. Of course you could stay 90 days, hop over to Canada and re-enter a day later and stay for another 90 days but the costs vastly outweigh any savings you would make.

 

Or, you find a dealer who has an export license and is willing to ship to the UK, but, be prepared for VAT, Import Duty, Import Tax, Handling Fees etc. etc. again it usually makes buying most things no cheaper.

 

 

Is there not a decent deal to be found in Europe?, surely there must be a country in the EEC where guns are cheaper than here?. There's some decent info about it here,

 

http://www.shooters.co.uk/shootingeurope.htm

Edited April 10, 2011 by phaedra1106

[Reefcat]

I know of a number of people who have done it this way:

 

1. Get a dealer to sell the gun to a US citizen (he can't sell it direct to you)

2. US citizen sells the gun to you and fills in your certificate

3. Declare at the US airport, apparently no problem if the gun is accompanied. You need an export license to post it, but carrying with you is allowed.

4. Declare as secondhand at UK customs, and pay duty vat etc.

5. Job done.

 

A few people in the skeet community do this every year, and I have thought about doing it myself. I've not heard of anyone having a problem, but that doesn't mean to say that it is entirely risk free. I looked long and hard at doing it through a courier with all the paperwork, and unles the dollar gets significantly weaker, then it's not worth it.

 

I have tried (in vain) to get full clarification from the ATF. The rules seem to be contradictory according to which agency you talk to. The US customs don't seem to require any paperwork at all if you are taking a sporting shotgun out of the country.

[phaedra1106]

That certainly doesn't sound right from any of the conversations I've had with the ATF and TSA over the last 2 years, I'd have a read of this,

 

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/nonimmigrant-aliens.html#nonimmigrant-possession

 

Selling guns privately to those who are from outside the US or even live outside the same state carries legal responsibilities to the seller as to it's destination and use.

[seeker]

One of the phrases I remember from another thread was 'straw purchase'.

Its great if everything works out but I suspect the 'risk' includes at least the price paid for the gun: in the case of a US Kriekhof its still a wad 'n a bit. ..

So is everywhere in the EU at top $ + vat ??

[BigG]

Hi Jon,

 

What's the numbers look like, UK vs US?

 

You will be able to pick up for much less than the RRP in the UK. Pm me I can let you know what I paid for one with gr3 wood last year.

 

Gav

[casts_by_fly]

What Pheadra says in his posts above is absolutely correct with one clarification. Non immigrant aliens (i.e. foreign visitors) are able to purchase firearms without waiting for a 90 day period. However, regardless of the waiting period you are not permitted to take possession of the gun in the country. You must have it shipped out via the purchasing agent (gun dealer). That means you have to either purchase through a dealer who will get an export permit for you, or you need to find a dealer to get an export permit, purchase the gun, have the first dealer ship it to the second dealer, and the second dealer exports it to you in the UK. The biggest difficulty is finding someone willing to export it for you. There are definitely some available, but they do charge for the service, plus the cost of the permit, plus the shipping fees. You'll also expect to pay $25-$35 to ship it from the first dealer to the second.

 

Of course you'll have to pay import duty and VAT on this end, plus delivery fees.

 

For a high end gun (5k plus pounds or more) and a favorable exchange rate, then it can still be worth it. For 'bargains' it isn't.

 

Thanks

Rick

Edited April 10, 2011 by casts_by_fly

[casts_by_fly]

I know of a number of people who have done it this way:

 

1. Get a dealer to sell the gun to a US citizen (he can't sell it direct to you)

2. US citizen sells the gun to you and fills in your certificate

3. Declare at the US airport, apparently no problem if the gun is accompanied. You need an export license to post it, but carrying with you is allowed.

4. Declare as secondhand at UK customs, and pay duty vat etc.

5. Job done.

 

A few people in the skeet community do this every year, and I have thought about doing it myself. I've not heard of anyone having a problem, but that doesn't mean to say that it is entirely risk free. I looked long and hard at doing it through a courier with all the paperwork, and unless the dollar gets significantly weaker, then it's not worth it.

 

I have tried (in vain) to get full clarification from the ATF. The rules seem to be contradictory according to which agency you talk to. The US customs don't seem to require any paperwork at all if you are taking a sporting shotgun out of the country.

 

 

That would be a straw purchase and is 100% illegal. First, the citizen is making the purchase on behalf of someone else. Second, he is selling a gun to a prohibited person (non immigrant alien). Third, you are in possession of a gun illegally while you are in the country. Both the citizen and the alien would be liable here and both would see jailtime if caught.

 

Thanks

Rick

[Reefcat]

Thanks for the clarification guys, maybe I won't try that method then.

[John_R]

Phaedra, if I can find it when I get home, I will cut and paste another email from similar correspondence that fully contradicts what you said!

 

I wish it were different as I am in ond out of the USA at least twice a year.

 

It is starting to look like the the Federal (as opposed to State) authorities out there don't all sing from the same hymn sheet just like over here.

[phaedra1106]

Wouldn't surprise me at all

 

The ATF were worse than useless, it took 3 goes to get any information out of the TSA and even then it came about 4 weeks after we had got back with the stuff!.

 

I'm going out in about 2 weeks, my friends on the Gulf Coast have about 1/2 a room full of packages for me to collect, if I've worked it out correctly it will nicely fill both 23Kg suitcases which leaves us the 2 backpacks for everything else we're bringing back

Edited April 11, 2011 by phaedra1106

[JonD]

Wouldn't surprise me at all

 

The ATF were worse than useless, it took 3 goes to get any information out of the TSA and even then it came about 4 weeks after we had got back with the stuff!.

 

I'm going out in about 2 weeks, my friends on the Gulf Coast have about 1/2 a room full of packages for me to collect, if I've worked it out correctly it will nicely fill both 23Kg suitcases which leaves us the 2 backpacks for everything else we're bringing back

 

Thanks all for the advice, still sounds like a minefield :(

 

Gav, i'll PM you.

 

Cheers,

 

Jon.