8 Bore Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) Had this emailed today BASC attempted licence takeover [-] Posted: 16/05/2011 19:59:44 A head's up to all the wildfowling clubs throughout the country, BASC are trying at all costs to take the wildfowling licence from under the nose of 8 humber clubs and dissolve the upper humber wildfowling commitee that has run the licences democratically and trouble free for many years. Everything up to now has been dealt with in a very under handed manner and personally i am disgusted with the conduct of two of its senior staff. I am quite sure that Stanley duncan who formed its predecessor "wagbi" on its birthplace the Humber, would be turning in his grave at the treatment of its members. I sat in a meeting with two reps from basc who told us that ABP were terminating our licence and handing it to them, when asked why ? they replied they did not know who but someone had been troublemaking at associated british ports and it was not our concern as this committe was dissolved and basc would be running it from now on ! It turns out as we were informed later that BASC had been into ABP months earlier and told them a load of rubbish effectivly trying to steal the licences from us. Luckily for us the upper Humber meeting was taped including the lies from the BASC reps which could be very embarassing for them when it gets out. This makes chilling reading folks ! if Basc get away with it there will be no wildfowling licence or lease safe throughout the country. Please read the following article that we have tried to get published through the sporting press, up to now no one will run with it suppose it is a political hot potato. Questions need to be answered why BASC feel the need to want to dictate/control wildfowling/wildfowlers, particularly as it is outside their remit to hold licences or leases at this moment in time Maybe all BASC members should be asking these questions of John Swift , Robert Irvine etc as no one's prepared to explain the logic of BASC's actions. All this has been done without any consideration or consultation with the 8 BASC affiliated clubs who shoot the humber at this time. just have a look at the article below and make your own mind up. The Battle for Wildfowling Continues - (The Second Front!) Back in 2009 I wrote an article entitled; ‘The Battle for Wildfowling’. In it I used a number of analogies to a war to highlight the problems that the wildfowling clubs on the north bank of the Humber are facing in trying to maintain our decades old tradition of wildfowling - on the very estuary that was the birthplace of modern day wildfowling as we know it today. At that time we were fighting with Natural England (NE) for our consents to wildfowl within the Humber Estuary. Specifically, for the areas that appertained to the two north bank clubs namely my own club, Hull & East Riding Wildfowlers’ Association (H&ERWA) and Holderness & Humber Wildfowlers’ Association, (H&HWA) with which we share our wildfowling and related activities. The Humber was the stamping ground of the late Stanley Duncan, founder of the Wildfowlers Association of Great Britain and Ireland (WAGBI) which evolved into the current British Association for Shooting and Conservation, (BASC). I fear that Stanley Duncan would be turning in his grave if he new that we are now under attack from a new ‘enemy’ within our own ranks! - From this very same ‘shooting sports representative body’, the BASC! And the ‘battlefront’ has widened to include both the north and south banks of the Humber. As a result of this ‘second front’, we now have some new allies. Six of eight south bank Humber clubs represented by the South Humber Area Joint Council, (SHAJC) have joined the ‘campaign’ to repel this latest attack. BASC staff at both local and national levels has been underhandedly working to take control of the Humber clubs wildfowling licences on the upper Humber. Since 1991, these licenses have been issued by Associated British Ports, (ABP) to the Upper Humber Wildfowling Committee, (UHWC) which administers a permit scheme allowing wildfowling to take place over the estuary mudflats below the mean high water (MHW) mark. The UHWC is run under the auspices of the BASC and chaired by their Northern Regional Director, (Phil Pugh). It consists of wildfowling representatives from both sides of the Humber. The south bank clubs are represented through the SHAJC which is made up of 8 south Humber clubs. The north bank has representatives from H&ERWA and H&HWA. The other members of this committee include Natural England and the BASC also provide secretarial support. Just found this on another forum (For background information; the UHWC was formed as an off-shoot of the Humber Wildfowl Refuge Committee, (HWRC). The HWRC was formed in 1963 and tasked with looking after the interests of the Humber Wildfowl Refuge, (set up in 1963 by Government Order). The committee is made up of a 50:50 split representation of the wildfowling and nature conservation interests on the estuary. Representation includes H&HWA, H&ERWA, BASC, SHAJC, Lincolnshire Trust for Nature Conservation, Yorkshire Wildlife Trust, Yorkshire Naturalists Union and NE. The UHWC was formed to deal specifically with wildfowling matters, in particular licensing, permit schemes and wardening, allowing the HWRC to concentrate on the nature conservation interests of the refuge). In March of this year, at a meeting of the UHWC, the chairman of the committee shocked the members present by announcing, completely out of the blue, that ABP was to withdraw the wildfowling licences from the UHWC and turn control over to the BASC. This ‘bombshell’ also included the chairman’s decision to dissolve the UHWC, a committee that has been in existence for over 20 years! At the chairman’s invitation the meeting was attended by the BASC Director of Conservation and Land Management, (Tim Russell). He informed the committee how this, (supposedly unexpected) new arrangement was to be managed by him and his BASC staff from their headquarters at Marford Mill in Wales. The changes by ABP were presented to the committee as being a complete surprise to the BASC staff. However, without any form of communication, consultation or discussion with the committee, alternative arrangements for the takeover of the licenses had been worked out with ABP, a new management committee proposed, consent transfers verified with NE and BASC staff assigned to take control. All things considered it was hard for the committee to accept that the BASC staff involved had no prior knowledge of this happening! A suspicion that was later confirmed as the wildfowling clubs attempted to get to the facts of the matter. It is fair to say that these proposals met with significant resistance and some counter attack! It was clear to the committee that the chairman had overstepped his authority in his role as chairman and as a BASC representative. The committee was vociferous in its rejection of the proposal for the BASC to take control of the wildfowling licenses. What is more, the chairman had no right or mandate from the committee to proclaim dissolution of the UHWC. It is unacceptable that such changes to members sport can be made by our own representative body, in such a manner and without any form of consultation. The wildfowlers have not been alone in voicing their concerns over these BASC proposals. The HWRC which, as explained, has direct linkages with, and reliance on the wildfowling representatives for its very existence, has expressed it’s concerns as to reasons for and implications of the BASC changes. To date, this committee is still awaiting a response from the UHWC chairman over these concerns. The involvement of BASC staff at a local and national level to take control of affiliated clubs wildfowling licenses appears to indicate a change of policy. This raises a number of questions; Does this mean that these actions had the endorsement of senior BASC staff and/or the BASC council? Was the council or the BASC Wildfowling Liaison Committee, (WLC) even made aware of these intentions? It appears not! So If not, why not? Despite numerous attempts to communicate with senior BASC staff on this matter, the Humber clubs, to date, have not had any of their questions and/or concerns answered. We have been told however, that the BASC council was briefed, after the fact, and that two council members have since been instructed to support and help BASC staff, in the BASC chairman’s words; ‘to help move things along’. We have been unable to gain any insight into what this means so I will leave the readers to make their own interpretation! So once again it appears that the banks of the Humber could be the first line of defence against yet another attack on our sport. The Humber clubs are now joining forces and are not prepared to accept these changes without a fight. What has happened here appears to have been badly thought through, very poorly handled, and gone against all reasonable procedural and democratic process. Whether the BASC succeed in their takeover of the Humber licenses or not, only time will tell. What is less uncertain is the affect that these latest moves have had on the feelings of the wildfowlers of the Humber clubs towards their sports representative body. There is an extreme danger that this will alienate a considerable number of ‘grass-roots’ members, bringing into question the continued affiliation with an organisation that seems to have forgotten its own roots! I can only reiterate my previous warnings (from the first article); wildfowlers beware, be prepared and expect the unexpected. This is a bold, underhand and audacious move by the BASC – sabotage from within! - Where will it stop? . Edited May 17, 2011 by 8 Bore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 10 pages or zapped.??????// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Hmmm, i wonder what David BASC will have to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 10 pages or zapped.??????// Don't know. But I'm off for the micro-wave popcorn. OP - you'd do well to get some meat on the bones here. Otherwise, your post appears to be full of statements based on opinion rather than fact. It's not a good starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Anyone can understand your anger but you need to set out where these articles appeared, by whom, and how it supports your concern of a takeover. What are the rules of due process for your overseeing organisation? What have BASC said to justify their actions>? Has someone called Associated Britsh Ports ( the authorising owner?) and asked why they have changed their long standing process - and asked them to suspend any decision pending clarification of the situation? You need to form a new group with all clubs signed up and ask to meet ABP and put your cards on the table. If you dont get any answers from BASC, ABP or your useless Chairman, then we need to hear more, as I suspect the majority of BASC members would not support an intrusion such as this (assuming your worst fears are realised), in their name. There are many people who would find this unacceptable - if proved. Come back and tell us more but PLEASE succinctly. Anyone seen DavidBASC ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 Bore Posted May 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) Forgot the header Had this emailed today Edited May 17, 2011 by 8 Bore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkfoot Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Hmmm, i wonder what David BASC will have to say? He knows all about it, trust me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 mmm, very worrying but not all sides are being told yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 I am intrigued to see how this developes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) Watching for the developments Edited May 16, 2011 by utectok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 What has this got to do with pigeon shooting? I must admit that I only came accross it out of boredom. For a topic of such an important nature as this surely General Shooting Matters is the for it to be. Moderators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 I have moved the thread to General Shooting Matters. So we have a lot of second or third hand stuff, copied from other Forums, with lots of suggestion and supposition. You can bet your life there will be at least two sides to this story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wildfowler Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 I'm sure David will have some input on this? However bad it is for BASC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Oh goodie, we've not had a potentially rampant 'geese' topic for a few weeks. Let me get a couple of cushions for my pc chair so I don't get seat sores on me bum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 hmmmm interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 This is very interesting and as has been said there is always two sides to the story. You have to think to yourself though. I have heard other stories about BASC and the way that they support or in a lot of cases fail to support certain areas of shooting and the covert way in which they seem to operate, sometimes concerns me. Put it this way, it is Wildfowling now what will be next. I have to admit if this has any truth to it, which I do think there is, I will be the first to leave BASC and find alternative insurance and representation. I feel that it just goes on and on with BASC, DSC 1 & 2 is a prime example of an “is it needed”? No not just now but let’s get the course in motion, charge the members £290 to do it and look at what we can do next to get more money out of our members. I sometimes wonder if I should be paying the annual subs to BASC or should I look elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) BASC is not trying to take away any wildfowling from any clubs, on the contrary, what we are simply doing to trying to do all we can to make sure all the clubs in the area have their fair share of the wildfowling. The OP is, I am sure aware, of the issues that a couple of clubs in the area have had last year where they could not shoot, I dare say the OP was not a member of one of the clubs that were prevented from shooting over this land last season! Do you honestly think that BASC will take this licence over and then stop BASC members of hte humber clubs from shooting over the land under this licence? Get real, nothing of the sort! David Edited May 17, 2011 by David BASC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 David, Perhaps we should ask why this form of intervention was necessary at all? Has BASC taken the permission to allow shooting below high water mark as suggested i the article? Did BASC talk directly to the port authority? Who invited BASC to do this? What was the Chairman of the Humber wildfowling group doing, whilst this was going on ? Are we to assume he called BASC in? How is it BASC can resolve this problem only by taking the role of a group agreed by all the members of all wildfowling clubs? How did BASC suggest the Chairman should dissolve the existing arrangements? If some of the 10 or so clubs north and south did not get a fair share of the shooting then why are they now banding together to oppose their own former Chairmans actions? David, your comments reflect the sensasionalist nature of some of the criticism of BASC, but lets be clear, the answers you have given so far do not address the 'facts' as they have so far been presented on other fora and here - apparently. I for one would like to know your and BASC's perpsective on the text of the articles which seem to have appreared. Or are BASC saying that its all manufactured untruths? As a member, I dont expect semi ya booo answers - sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) Know nowt about this, whether it's current or historical but it's interesting and am looking forward to the other side of the coin. Usually, there's no need to "defend" BASC as there's others who will, rightly (or wrongly on occasion). However, there's one point raised which I feel is a little unfair. Blunderbust gives a figure for DSC of £290. If you were in Norfolk some 25 years ago you could have done a 10 week (one, one to two hour lecture once a week and occasionally a day's beating - unpaid, educational) course to include both a theoretical and practical assessment, the course "bible" and a certificate and badges for the cuccessful candidates for £20. You may have even had some instruction from a qualified coach FoC. Now, even allowing for inflation, how does that compare with Blunderbust's DSC figure and, if this seems a bit odd, as they are/were both BASC courses, what could account for any financial discrepancy? Edited May 17, 2011 by wymberley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Do you honestly think that BASC will take this licence over and then stop BASC members of hte humber clubs from shooting over the land under this licence? What about non BASC members? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 The questions are Why did ASC take over the licences ? Who asked them and where did their authority come from - not all wildfowlers ARE BASC members I'd also like answers to the other questions - perhaps a full and contradictory statement? It does seem strange that the democratic arrangements to allocate shooting previously have so dismally failed, that the ref has taken over the commentary box ? Come on David lets have some sensible answers please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Browning,the land is shot over by BASC clubs, so only members of the BASC clubs in the area can shoot the land. Kes, I have not give a Ya boo answer, and you know it! As I have said, what we are simply doing to trying to do all we can to make sure all the clubs in the area have their fair share of the wildfowling. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 David, doesnt answer why you (BASC) had to take control and how. Does no-one other than BASC members have permission to shoot on the Humber? Why is that ? Presumably 8Bore is a BASC member therefore so why isnt he jumping for joy? Sorry this is just not addressing the issue, surely the full details must be available - our communications at BASC are instant now, are they not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSPUK Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 very intersting post - unfortunately I couldn't read half of it for that stupid avitar flashing across page. dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 David, doesnt answer why you (BASC) had to take control and how. Does no-one other than BASC members have permission to shoot on the Humber? Why is that ? Presumably 8Bore is a BASC member therefore so why isnt he jumping for joy? Sorry this is just not addressing the issue, surely the full details must be available - our communications at BASC are instant now, are they not? its the same in every wildfowling club I've heard of BASC membership is mandatory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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