motherline weight

[anthonychez]

Hiya anyone know what the weight to average decoy ratio should be for a mothet line on the shore? I have made a line up and melted some lead in bean tins , about a third of a tin and they weigh 3lb in weight. Think they are over kill as I set out to make them a 1lb and a half. Any help would be great. I generally take out about 20 deeks.

[Konnie]

I don't know of a ratio for weight to decoy, I generally use 4oz sea fishing weights on the foreshore remember it will sink

in the mud and your line needs to be strong enough to haul it back. No good if it snaps at decoy 3 with 17 left out. the one

thing that causes problems is water flow on a flat marsh no problem, in a large creek or river it can drag decoys under. To

combat this you need a line length on a ratio to water depth(don't know that but heard there is one)Chris Green has a good idea on one of his dvd's using cane.

[FatFreddysCat]

I use an 8oz sea fishing weight with grip wires. One of these holds 10 decoys ok. Pic below if it copy pastes ok.

 

[anthonychez]

Thanks for your replies. I knew they were to heavy. Thinking of using 2 weights of about a pound. Sounds like thats plenty. Ill just chop them down abit I think. I cant belive how heavy a third of a tin of lead weighs I could rig 60 deeks with mine. Lol

[anser2]

I think you are asking an almost impossible question ,there are too many variables. It will depend where you are decoying. First is the strength of the tide ( and that will vary according between spring and neap tides) second is wind pull on the decoys , third is the number of decoys you use on the mother line , what the creek bottom is like ( sand or mud ) , depth of water and last is the thickness of the mother line. To give an example I can get away with 4 oz breakout leads in my creek as long as the tide is not too strong when using crab line , but need to use 8oz leads when using teryline mother line. On spring tides I may have to double up. I always try to use least weight as it can make a big diffferance when you have a heavy bag of decoys and a long walk over rough ground. If decoying in shallow water with no tidal pull I may not use leads at all but attach the decoys to short canes.

Edited February 13, 2014 by anser2

[kent]

Depend on were your going. If your at the Hot pot supper will throw a few in the truck and show you what I mean. Its the force of the water not the number of deeks though it has a bearing. I shoot one venue were no weight you could carry out could hold but I still manage by other means

[pavman]

I moved away from a motherline set up and now set singles when its not windy and pairs and triples when it is.... it allows me to set a pattern that's dog friendly and open enough to invite birds in. I use 2 oz weights on each (because I have a mould)

[anthonychez]

I have always set doubles and singles , and like you say get great patterns. But fancy a go at motherline. They seem alot quicker to put away than singles especialy in deeper water. Im off for a few days for the end if the season so will give the motherline a try. Might take some single weights also incase I dont like it.

Think i'll be going hot pot supper kent

[mudpatten]

A note of caution with motherlines and dogs.

 

My labrador is rock steady so this has nothing to do with it running in in an uncontrolled fashion.

 

On a recent outing the dog, used to single rigged decoys, managed to entangle itself in the motherline and very rapidly found itself in severe difficulties. Fortunately, the water was shallow enough to wade out and rescue it.

 

I understand fully that motherline rigs are ideal for certain circumstances, but i`m going to be reverting to something safer.

[silver pigeon 3]

I generally use 4oz sea fishing weights on the foreshore remember it will sink in the mud and your line needs to be strong enough to haul it back. No good if it snaps at decoy 3 with 17 left out.

 

 

 

I have had this, and it is a right pain having to wait for the tide to drop enough to get them back. On a paticular marsh it is the underwater rocks that grab the weight and it gets stuck, now on this marsh i put a "weak" link in the motherline by the weight of 25lb fishing line. This is strong enough to hold all the decoys but breakable if needed.

[anthonychez]

Thats the only thing that put me off about motherlines . Shes been tangled in single riggs in the past .

[kent]

A note of caution with motherlines and dogs.

 

My labrador is rock steady so this has nothing to do with it running in in an uncontrolled fashion.

 

On a recent outing the dog, used to single rigged decoys, managed to entangle itself in the motherline and very rapidly found itself in severe difficulties. Fortunately, the water was shallow enough to wade out and rescue it.

 

I understand fully that motherline rigs are ideal for certain circumstances, but i`m going to be reverting to something safer.

 

I have raised this point before and got a lot of flack. Your mainline should always sink (paracord and the like is hydrophobic, meaning even when you get it under it wants to float up again). The droppers likewise (I use big Marlin type long line clips, they are heavy enough to sink any line). All you do then is have enough length in the droppers and enough slack in the mainline and the dog can circle around ant decoy.

Too many mainlines are being sold at silly money on the net by persons who don't use them enough and at enough venues to know what they are doing wrong

[Penelope]

Thick, heavy breaking strain fluorocarbon maybe an answer.

 

 

I have raised this point before and got a lot of flack. Your mainline should always sink (paracord and the like is hydrophobic, meaning even when you get it under it wants to float up again). The droppers likewise (I use big Marlin type long line clips, they are heavy enough to sink any line). All you do then is have enough length in the droppers and enough slack in the mainline and the dog can circle around ant decoy.

Too many mainlines are being sold at silly money on the net by persons who don't use them enough and at enough venues to know what they are doing wrong

Edited February 14, 2014 by Penelope

[kent]

 

I have raised this point before and got a lot of flack. Your mainline should always sink (paracord and the like is hydrophobic, meaning even when you get it under it wants to float up again). The droppers likewise (I use big Marlin type long line clips, they are heavy enough to sink any line). All you do then is have enough length in the droppers and enough slack in the mainline and the dog can circle around ant decoy.

Too many mainlines are being sold at silly money on the net by persons who don't use them enough and at enough venues to know what they are doing wrong

 

I don't know of a ratio for weight to decoy, I generally use 4oz sea fishing weights on the foreshore remember it will sink

in the mud and your line needs to be strong enough to haul it back. No good if it snaps at decoy 3 with 17 left out. the one

thing that causes problems is water flow on a flat marsh no problem, in a large creek or river it can drag decoys under. To

combat this you need a line length on a ratio to water depth(don't know that but heard there is one)Chris Green has a good idea on one of his dvd's using cane.

 

Three times the water depth same as an anchor on a boat , however 4 oz grip leads will not hold in many, many conditions. you wont hold with 4 oz grip leads fishing on a lot of the Estuaries on a spring tide round here in the NW fishing 12 lb mainline and lugworm, let alone hold a dozen plastic duck in place they will in short take an early migration. I am pretty sure there are just as strong and stronger tidal flows others contend with

[kent]

Thick, heavy bs fluorocarbon maybe an answer.

 

 

Tarred or sinking rope of around 9mm. Droppers steel longline clips (commercial fishing supplies) I like the no tangle PVC for droppers, though also use 40-50lb test clear mono on a few as its less visible if I want to fish shallow grass flood water after the tide has gone. In this case I just unclip the longline clip and replace it with a suitable lead on each deek, fishing them as separates in as little water as they will float in often

[kent]

 

Tarred or sinking rope of around 9mm. Droppers steel longline clips (commercial fishing supplies) I like the no tangle PVC for droppers, though also use 40-50lb test clear mono on a few as its less visible if I want to fish shallow grass flood water after the tide has gone. In this case I just unclip the longline clip and replace it with a suitable lead on each deek, fishing them as separates in as little water as they will float in often

 

The reason so heavy a mainline is sometimes you need to pull like heck to free it from snags, rip out your anchor point before low water etc. Any fishing line even 100 lb plus will not allow this and cut you to the bone if you try

[anser2]

Using single leads per decoy is fine in fairly shallow water, but on my marsh the creeks can be 15 feet deep and hold water for 3 hours each side of high tide . A mother line is the only answer unless you want a very long wait. Provided you keep the line between the clip and the decoy less than 3 inches tangling with the dog is not a problem , but it can be with a longer link. My dogs regulary swim over the mother line when retrieving and have in 30 years of using short links have never had a problem , though if possible I like to hold the dog back from the retrieve until the duck has drifted clear of the mother line that does not alway work if you have a couple of birds down that are drifting away fast on the ebb tide or when the dog is on the return with a bird.

Edited February 14, 2014 by anser2

[kent]

Do you really mean 3 INCHES, have you got a retrieving ferret or a dog? I cant see how the dog can swim over 3" am I missing something? Like you this is were you use a mainline its a compromise at best in shallow water and of no benefit in bringing things in quickly. Besides individuals allow fror building a far better placed spread.

 

To retrieve a mainline I haul in unclipping each duck in turn and lobbing it in a pile to one side while coiling the rope on a winder (those used for building electric extensions are perfect). One the line is sorted I wrap up the droppers around each of the deeks. If its dark or I am in a big push to be off I just stuff everything in the sack as a big jumble - but what a job to sort before the next trip!

[anser2]

Yes, I do mean 3 inches, less if possible. The dogs swim over the motherline not the link between the decoy and the mother line. This method keeps the mother line very close to the surface but that does not cause any problems with the dog because the line is always tight with the tidal pull so there is no lose lines to the dog to tangle in. My lab just powers over the line.

 

 

 

I use short lines between the decoy and mother line and with care I can still get a realistic looking pattern. I use a 50 M mother line , chuck out the lead as far as possible ( 25 yards ) clip on the decoys in random groups along the line between 25 yards and 40 yards along the mother line as the tide drags them out into the creek. And keep n paying out line for 20 yards after the last decoy is attached. I normally use 8 or at most 10 decoys per mother line. The result is a couple of singles a pair and a small group of decoys that the tide pulls out into an arc across the creek. I often used two such lines, but I usually find if the duck are going to come in 8 decoys work as well as 20 on marsh most of the time with one exception, a huge creek 150m across that the duck have to be persuaded to come into as they normally flight into the salt marsh pools the other side of the creek. I normally use wigeon decoys , but sometimes have a line of wigeon decoys on one side and a line of teal decoys on the other , late season when we usually have a lot of teal about otherwise the whole spread will be wigeon decoys. My salt marsh is about 1 1\2 miles wide and some creeks huge. I find the decoys work best well into the marsh. We do not see the huge numbers of duck that can be seen on the seaward edge of the marsh and at the back of the marsh to see a hundred wigeon in maybe a dozen groups is a good tide flight, but there have been quite frequent days when every bunch of wigeon that have come within 300 yards have come into the decoys. I should add that shooting pressure is light and many duck roost on the bigger tidal creeks during the day.

 

In contrast the mallard have always been a problem to decoy. We have 100s of small pools across the marsh when a lot of mallard spend the day ( often 300 or more ) , but the mallard are well scattered sitting the day out in small flocks of less than half a dozen and more frequently in pairs. As they do not naturally group together they usually ignore mallard decoys.

Edited February 15, 2014 by anser2

[kent]

Goes to show there is more than one way, I have never tried a 3" dropper don't know if I will find a reason to because with a well sunk mainline the dog just swims right over the top, dropper links tangling his don't create me an issue- though I don't let the dog touch decoys go near them or even give them a funny look If you let them it seems to lead to problems from what I have seen

[pavman]

Using single leads per decoy is fine in fairly shallow water, but on my marsh the creeks can be 15 feet deep and hold water for 3 hours each side of high tide . A mother line is the only answer unless you want a very long wait.

why would you need to wait a long time? within reason I can set and retrieve singles and doubles whenever I want on any tide or depth

[anser2]

With a mother line you can also retrieve the decoys whenever you want to. Retreving them from 30 yards out by trying to snag the line of a single decoy with a strong tide and a head wind wind is not easy I have tried it several times and found a mother line the easy option. In addition sometimes you need to retrieve the decoys fast when the tide rises faster than expected and have to get off the marsh in a hurry and its far quicker with a single mother line than having to chuck out a snag line a dozen times. I am also reluctant to use single line decoys in part because of the total weight of leads needed for a dozen decoys far exceeds the weight needed for a motherline and partly because on hard sandy creek bottoms leads will move in very strong tides even with wire grips. At least with a motherline I can haul the decoys in when a exceptional spring tide first reaches them and reset them at half tide when the tide slackens. With single decoys half of them would be bobbing out in the middle of the North Sea before i would hae had time to retrieve them. After 40 years of experimenting I have found on my marsh a motherline is the simplest , quickest and lightest ( weight it an important feature when you have a long rough walk , jumping dozens of small creeks to get to where you want to flight ) method of setting and retrieving my decoys.

Edited February 18, 2014 by anser2

[kent]

why would you need to wait a long time? within reason I can set and retrieve singles and doubles whenever I want on any tide or depth

 

On your venue! This is the point when we talk even of which mother line weights required, all venues are different - some markedly so!

[pavman]

 

On your venue! This is the point when we talk even of which mother line weights required, all venues are different - some markedly so!

I take your point Kent.... however I have shot elsewhere and it still works for me but you are right in that there is perhaps no common answer as what may work for one will not for another and is dependant on factors of tide/strength/time/boat or bank in any combination...... We all experiment and find what works for us and I think this is perhaps the sensible answer with the obvious of being careful putting your dog in as they can pull in a single or double but a line full is another matter....

 

I use flat leads without prongs and even in a strong flow they hold no doubt because its over mud so they get a bit of suction...... I also set so I can normally snag at least 2 sets at a time to retrieve and this cuts rig down time, but of course its not always the case.... cold fingers and a strong wind can soon screw the best of plans!

[kent]

The dog should rarely have issues with a well set spread though I can rarely set singles over waist deep