Prawn Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 After a successful pheasant season the shoot I go to is interested in catching up the hens and giving them to game breeders in exchange for some poults later. I was wondering if anyone knew if anybody wanted some in the West/East Sussex area. Thanks for reading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy96 Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 It's against the law to catch up out of season ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malantone Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 It's against the law to catch up out of season !Every year we get this answer, I don't believe it, damn near every Keeper catches up after the shooting season is over, Is it not down to the definition of " Taking birds " surely if they are not killed then they are not taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 The best place to start is the game farm you have chosen to buy your poults from. Contact several localish game farms and see what sort of deal you can do. Much will depend on the number of poults you will be buying in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosca2701 Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Those of you who do catch up, what percentage of your release would you be hoping to catch? Over the years we've tended to end up with around 2%-3%. Would that be about right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 It would depend entirely on how many you shoot vs number released. As an example, If you put down 5000 but only shoot 5 x 100 bird days your catch % would be high. Whereas if your aim is to shoot them out your catch % would be very low. Everyones figures will vary dependant on the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prawn Posted February 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Those of you who do catch up, what percentage of your release would you be hoping to catch? Over the years we've tended to end up with around 2%-3%. Would that be about right? On our shoot we put down 1000 pheasants in total and shot about 400 of the pheasants throughout the whole season. We are hoping to catch anywhere from 20-50 hens. 2% of a thousand is 20, 5% is 50. So yeah that sounds about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Those of you who do catch up, what percentage of your release would you be hoping to catch? Over the years we've tended to end up with around 2%-3%. Would that be about right? This also depends on what quantity of eggs you will be needing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordieh Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Every year we get this answer, I don't believe it, damn near every Keeper catches up after the shooting season is over, Is it not down to the definition of " Taking birds " surely if they are not killed then they are not taken. It doesn't matter whether you believe it or not but if keepers are catching up after 1st Feb they are breaking the law.Google Natural England TIN104(Technical Information Note) it states killing or taking game birds in the close is illegal.So it is not down to the definition of taking.Taking or killing gamebirds after 1st Feb is illegal.If you get this answer every year why haven't you checked the law then you would know for certain.Or perhaps it just doesn't suit Geordie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) second thoughts ! Edited February 20, 2014 by CharlieT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malantone Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) It doesn't matter whether you believe it or not but if keepers are catching up after 1st Feb they are breaking the law.Google Natural England TIN104(Technical Information Note) it states killing or taking game birds in the close is illegal.So it is not down to the definition of taking.Taking or killing gamebirds after 1st Feb is illegal.If you get this answer every year why haven't you checked the law then you would know for certain.Or perhaps it just doesn't suit Geordie You see Geordie, It is still down to the definition of taking," as taking or killing" seems to be one and the same, other wise Keepers could not catch up on Sundays as stated :- The Game Act makes it an offence to kill or take game birds on Sundays, Christmas Day and during the relevant close season Contrary to your assumptions, I have read the relevant act, and still think that by `taking` they mean killing, otherwise some RSPB pleb would have reported some keeper for catching up illegally. I still believe that you can catch birds providing your intention is to release them in a few weeks after you`ve got the eggs and not kill them. When you are answering this one keep your wig on and don't make assumptions. Edited February 20, 2014 by malantone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malantone Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 second thoughts ! Charlie come on board it has the makings of a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malantone Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Geordie, my argument is shot :- The practice of „catching up‟ wild game birds (typically pheasants or partridges) at the end of the shooting season as captive breeding stock is permitted, but only if the birds are taken before the close season commences. There is no legal provision available to authorise taking during the close season. But as everyone does it , it needs sorting, I can`t see the difference in taking them on the 1st of Feb or 14days later, as they will still be captive breeding stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Geordie, my argument is shot :- The practice of „catching up‟ wild game birds (typically pheasants or partridges) at the end of the shooting season as captive breeding stock is permitted, but only if the birds are taken before the close season commences. There is no legal provision available to authorise taking during the close season. But as everyone does it , it needs sorting, I can`t see the difference in taking them on the 1st of Feb or 14days later, as they will still be captive breeding stock. You are legally allowed to catch up for the month of February in Scotland but not in England and Wales (not sure about N.I). Catching up is still 'taking' and thinking this means killing will not stand up in a court of law (ignorance of the law doesn't get you off). Yes, birds are caught out of season by many and as far as I know there hasn't been any court cases or convictions regarding this but it doesn't make it legal. It would make a huge amount of sense if the rest of the UK would follow Scotland on this one as it makes sense, keepers have enough going on in the season without having to faff about trying to make sure you have plenty birds on the drives without having to disturb them and take them from the drives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Charlie come on board it has the makings of a good one. I did, but had second thoughts. However.............I'll try again. The exemption in the Wildlife and Countryside Act, section 5/5/c, as we know, permits the catching up of game birds. I have just reread this Act and for the life of me, I am unable to find any reference in the act to this being only permitted in "season", despite the fact that Natural England TIN 104 states the opposite. It needs someone with greater powers of concentration then me to read the act and point out to me where it specifically states that the exemption does not apply in the closed season. However, I am of the opinion that, having read the act, it is lawful and that is why I have never heard of a prosecution for catching up out of season, despite what NE state in their TIN. As you say many thousands of birds are caught up during February for breeding purposes, something which has been going on for years, logic tells me there must be a reason why no one has ever been brought to book for it. My guess is "wooly" legislation that would not stand up in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntsman Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 preservation of the pheasant occurs on 1st of february catch and release priority programme for game keepers and conservationists the definition can be read as you see fit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I did, but had second thoughts. However.............I'll try again. The exemption in the Wildlife and Countryside Act, section 5/5/c, as we know, permits the catching up of game birds. I have just reread this Act and for the life of me, I am unable to find any reference in the act to this being only permitted in "season", despite the fact that Natural England TIN 104 states the opposite. It needs someone with greater powers of concentration then me to read the act and point out to me where it specifically states that the exemption does not apply in the closed season. However, I am of the opinion that, having read the act, it is lawful and that is why I have never heard of a prosecution for catching up out of season, despite what NE state in their TIN. As you say many thousands of birds are caught up during February for breeding purposes, something which has been going on for years, logic tells me there must be a reason why no one has ever been brought to book for it. My guess is "wooly" legislation that would not stand up in court. This is probably the best statement. When I first started keepering (many years ago) I was taught many things and I remember one of the things was some of the legislation of gamebirds. I do remember being taught that everything that was in the Wildlife an Countryside Act regarding gamebirds was to be abided by in conjunction with the current game laws and seasons come under these laws. With this in mind the Act allows you to take birds for the purpose of breeding but the game seasons prevent you from doing this out of season. I do know that my old head keeper used to catch out of season (In Scotland) and provide one of our other keepers south of the border with his laying birds because of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konnie Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 If you happen to be a BASC member they will tell you how, and what the law is regarding catching up of game birds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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