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Roaring Emma


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Did the sale of "Roaring Emma" for a reputed £16k, fuel the massive price increase for big bore guns?

or have the dealers jumped on the band waggon? ok,all decent guns appreciate in value over the years if looked after,but the prices have gone through the roof of late,even the bored out 10 bore rubbish is being offered for silly money,If this continues, will these big bores languish in collectors gun cabinets instead of being used by true Wildfowlers who have seen these old guns pushed beyond their means? lets be honest ,would you wander out to the foreshore with £6k to £15k in your back pocket? I doubt that.

What is the answer for some one looking to buy a genuine big bore gun without having to pay massive profit to a modern day Highway man in the form of a gun dealer?

 

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Although as a wildfowler it pains me to say it if these old guns were not valued so highly many more might have been scrapped off. The real hard thing is them going across the sea to a land were their use on fowl is illegal. I would love a double gun of eight or above for special days but do I see it as a practical thing over a Spanish or American 10ga ? Not honestly as even if I had money to burn I should see myself more as a guardian of the gun holding it and using it only for my single lifetime and should see it as my duty to put it in the right hands before my demise if I could- Just like John did in fact!

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The prices went mad when they became obselete calibers as well, so in practice most people could own a small chambered 10b or any 8 or 4bore without having a shotgun licence, if you follow the auctions you will see plenty of srap bought and then get a clean up and nitro reproof , then come back for sale twice and three times as much as what it was sold for.

 

They still is plenty of guns to be had and some still at good money, you just need the money in your pocket and being in The right place and time when folk want to sell them before mr gun dealer gets to them first!

 

I've been lucky to have a nice English 10 b it was passed down,dropped on a tidy double 8 b and sold it like a fool but they is still guns coming up through word of mouth.

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Hi

Very thought provoking question

Firstly I agree with all 3 previous posts

And in my opinion there is a lot of overpriced junk out there the supply and demand creates this

There are also good genuine guns would I sell a gun a good one for less than a wall hanger no so I am guilty of keeping the prices high

Haven't got a 8 ( yet ) and if and when I am lucky enough to get one will I use it for its true intent yes I will and I would be happy to lend it to others to enjoy the experience yes I would

Maybe creating more demand and putting the price up further leaving me fueling the price rise and

Remaining its custodian untill its time to pass it on to another like minded person hopefully one of the youngsters that had used it

these guns were built to be used and enjoyed and I think unless a modern gunmaker thinks forward and builds some more affordable wildfowling guns that are fit for purpose they will become extinc

I hope that these big guns will continue to be used as I see many members here do and post there days I note there always smiling

Anyway just my thoughts

All the best

Of

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  • 2 months later...

I spent the best part of 3 years looking hard for a decent double eight which was both a pleasure to own for the long term, but also usable on the foreshore numerous times during the season. Going to auctions revealed quite a few guns, but a real lack of quality with a lot of poor examples which then, surprise surprise, turned up on the market 6 mths later done up cosmetically (not that this is necessarily a bad thing if the underlying quality is ultimately there). One of the challenges also was that very few gunsmiths or auction houses have the capacity to properly measure barrel thicknesses, so there remains the risk to the amateur of buying something with thin walls, overbored chambers or potentially hidden ring bulges. A lot of these old guns regrettably had a hard life decades ago!

 

I ultimately sourced my double eight through a friend who is an RFD/vintage gun seller and who I had alerted to my interest some time earlier. When he was out and about and aware of my criteria, it was then a question of moving fast as there was an occasion when a dealer gazumped me on a double Greener with literally a few hours to spare before I saw it. I now use the 8 around a dozen times a year, in all weathers, and whilst I am fastidious about cleaning her, I much prefer to use black powder :). I also have no qualms about crouching in creeks and getting the gun coated in mud if a pinkfoot or wigeon is on the agenda!

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I spent the best part of 3 years looking hard for a decent double eight which was both a pleasure to own for the long term, but also usable on the foreshore numerous times during the season. Going to auctions revealed quite a few guns, but a real lack of quality with a lot of poor examples which then, surprise surprise, turned up on the market 6 mths later done up cosmetically (not that this is necessarily a bad thing if the underlying quality is ultimately there). One of the challenges also was that very few gunsmiths or auction houses have the capacity to properly measure barrel thicknesses, so there remains the risk to the amateur of buying something with thin walls, overbored chambers or potentially hidden ring bulges. A lot of these old guns regrettably had a hard life decades ago!

 

I ultimately sourced my double eight through a friend who is an RFD/vintage gun seller and who I had alerted to my interest some time earlier. When he was out and about and aware of my criteria, it was then a question of moving fast as there was an occasion when a dealer gazumped me on a double Greener with literally a few hours to spare before I saw it. I now use the 8 around a dozen times a year, in all weathers, and whilst I am fastidious about cleaning her, I much prefer to use black powder :). I also have no qualms about crouching in creeks and getting the gun coated in mud if a pinkfoot or wigeon is on the agenda!

 

Nice read :good:

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hello there i own a double eight bore, nothing special but it's a local gun with history. I have owned it for approximately 20 years as well as knowing both of the previous owners. They have both asked me, if the gun is to ever come up for sale in the future, would it be alright for them to have first offer on it, however i would never part with this gun due to its history. A gun dealer has offered me three times the amount that i have paid for it although despite the temptations offer i declined. I love to tell the gun's stories to the new wildfowlers that i meet, mainly about the gun's size and history.

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The bottom has fell out the market for big guns in bad repair or thin barrels, I know alot of folk looking for them these days want to use them not hang them on the wall, gun dealers and collectors can't shift the rubbish these days, anything in good order commands big money.

Elderkins at spalding Lincolnshire measured my barrel wall thickness and choke in a 8b and still have the gear.

 

I've got one big gun left and in top order it will see my days out fowling I wouldn't buy another.

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Roaring Emma was bought by a long standing member of Hull and East Riding Wildfowlers Association and is available for use on guided flights on our marshes via our day ticket scheme.

 

It was John Humphreys wish that the gun would continue to be used for wildfowling.

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My mate shoots 3 1/2 oz bismuth from his double 8 Tolley, but only for romance! He uses a Beretta Extrema the rest of the time. But at £7 a pop ( price of a pack of fags ) let's keep the romance alive :)

Mick Toomer?

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when I was was looking around for a 8Bore I made sure I sourced as much info on them as possible, also I made up a set of plug gauges on the lathe to test for barrel wear and made a choke gauge as well.

 

Once went to an auction with my mate "Shakin stevens" the auction was offering 5/6 eights for sale and they all but one, had significant wear in the bore, some stamped .835 had nearly 35thou wear in the bore and had been re-blued so would have had a few thou removed from the outside of the barrel as well!

I was the only person there with a means of checking the Bores and potential buyers were asking me about the barrels on various guns they were going to bid on? anyway, people still bid on them and a single Tolly with no choke which measured .860+ also action off the face still got a bid of over £3000 + auction costs on top !!

 

Having only an average income, I think the way forward for myself and many more to enjoy wildfowling is the semi-auto synthetic 3.5 12g & 10g....theres no need to panic when the dog shakes, covered in mud near your gun and all's not lost even if it gets a dunking plus you are able to concentrate "fully on the fowling" without keep checking if the guns ok....I recently sold my Holland & Holland 8B because I knew I'd never take it out in the mud and I'd much rather use something more practicle but they are really beautiful things to have and I personally dont think the prices will ever fall for them. A gunsmith said to me recently, its very very rare nowadays to come across a sleeper as most have been passed around a very small group of people who are very much, in the know !!

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I'm not sure but I didn't think Roaring Emma actually sold for £16k in the end. BASC tried to raise the money through membership contribution but I thought failed and I heard that the guy from Hull bought it for the club for an undisclosed amount.

I have a double eight which we call Bucking Nora, I always take it with me when shooting Scotland and often use it but most flights will take my 3.5inch Browning semi (hell of a lot lighter) onto the marsh. It is the romance and tradition of a big gun that I enjoy, but honestly I don't think it gives that greater advantage over some heavy 3.5inch 12 bore loads given the price difference. I only use bismuth in the 8 but use steel in the 12 so the price difference is considerable. Also I have a lot more success with the lighter 12. I think the weight of the 8 somehow affects my swing (that's my excuse anyway)

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One Point in Question, What SHOT can you put through them, The cost is well prohibitive today: 4 oz`s or a punt at a 1lb of Bismuth, Com-on..

 

I use Bismuth (which I buy in 3lb tubs @ around £160 a time) and generally 2 oz loads, so go on the basis of of c.£6 a shot :(

 

Ultimately it depends on how often you are on the marsh - if you are flighting 3-4 times a week, it could get seriously expensive, but I regrettably only have 8-10 times out a year so each visit is very special, and the cost of say 35-50 cartridges a season very manageable therefore.

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