starting out

[Bryn12]

OK I'm not a complete newbie to shooting or clays but am coming back to shotguns after a couple of decades and have decided that I'd like to concentrate on clays, no idea what discipline yet as I'd like to try as wide a range as possible and see what floats my boat.

 

I'm about to start looking at an suitable gun to get me started so here's how I'm thinking

 

OU, 12g, 28", multichoke, fitted and/or adjustable comb

 

my idea for the shorter barrel and multichokes is to give me the best chance of hitting things to start with then gradually fitting tighter chokes as I improve and gain confidence. My current strength (maybe the wrong word) is driven, my weakness seams to be DTL

 

1. Is my thinking completely wrong

 

2. would it be possible/adviseable to fit say 30" or even 32" barrels in the future if that's the direction I progress in

 

3. if the above thinking is sound (possibly unlikely) what are my options with a budget of @£1500 to start off with

 

Not doing much just now as I'd like to start in earnest with a gun that suits/fits me

 

thanks

 

 

[shaun4860]

I would say go for a 30" multi, (don't keep messing about with the chokes)

 

If you're a competent shot then spend £1200 on a gun and the rest getting it fitted

 

If you're not still spend the £1200 and bang away for a few months until you can mount it consistantly THEN get it fitted

 

Browning/Beretta/Miroku all will shoot/fit slightly different, try as many as you can

 

[welshwarrior]

Depending on size strength 30" is more normal for a man and better transferable through the disciplines.

 

My advice would be look at Beretta Browning Miroku. The adjustable comb is a nice to have helps fit be tuned easier.

 

But whatever you buy fit is vital

[MAL S]

i agree with last two dont keep changing chokes, you could also try caesar guerini

[V8 90]

I too have just returned to Clay shooting after 25 years - I decide to get a new Clay gun & after looking at loads I settled for a new Browning GP trap 32" Multi Choke - it mounts superb & I can see plenty of rib. So far all seems in order - I've also had a couple of sessions roost shooting with it that went really well.

 

Choose wisely, try as many as you can & remember a quality gun will sell well should you ever decide to change/upgrade.

 

Good luck !!

[Bryn12]

Thanks I'd sort of come down to the triumvirate of Beretta, Browning, Miroku and 30" is certainly more common than 28" so I suppose that tells a story.

 

Suggestions for my better half? She's not fussed about competing just enjoys breaking them so I've been told light, low recoil and 'pretty'.

[HDAV]

Low recoil is more cartridge orientated than gun as long as it fits her well, " pretty " is very subjective.... some ladies prefer 20 bores but they can be as heavy as a 12, a beretta ultralight with Isis recoil pad may be ideal but will swallow your bugdet.

 

Try Hull 21g compX carts and a well balanced gun due to build ladies often need shorter stocks and higher combs for a good fit adjustable comb can be a benefit here. Shortening the stock can ruin the balance and make them front heavy which is bad. Fixed choked guns tend to be lighter in the barrel, for a value option look at franchi (some are very light Falconet for example)

Edited March 23, 2014 by HDAV

[V8 90]

I can't recommend a gun for your better half really - has she tried a 12g - some ladies prefer a 20g.

She could use yours with 21g loads - they're supposed to have little recoil.

 

 

HDAV got in whilst I was typing with much the same info !!

Edited March 23, 2014 by V8 90

[Bryn12]

The gun she had her try with was a 20.

 

I think its now a case of finding the time to go and try as many as we can

 

Am I right in thinking Clay comp cartridges are limited to 28gr, if so what's the difference between putting shot through say a cylinder 20 and a choked 12? or am I misunderstanding chokes

[MAL S]

yes you are and 20 bore cart are a lot more expence

[HDAV]

Don't worry about chokes they should all pattern the same regardless of bore, clay carts are generally limited to 28g (24g in Olympic disciplines) but 21g will break any clay your likely to see. 20G carts are £200+ per thousand for budget clay loads compared to £160 for 12G so if she shoots 1k a year it's not a huge difference.

[Bryn12]

Time to organise trying lots of guns, budget for both guns is @3k, obviously if they come in under that I won't be upset

 

I'm in SSW Scotland but am prepared and able to travel during the week to the right place, any suggestions/recommendations as to the best outlet, range, fitter.

[Bryn12]

thanks £40-80 over the year is fine, its more important that she has a gun she's happy with.

[HDAV]

Don't discount a12 for her, can't help with where to go shopping, but would suggest plenty of lessons for you to start before bad habbits develop

[Bryn12]

Agreed and the reason I want to get decent guns properly fitted right from the start, much better to start with a gun that fits you rather than start off by adapting yourself to the gun and then having to correct everything when you get a gun that is fitted. My match rifle was an Anschutz 1913 supermatch with pretty much fully adjustable everything and then I adapted it a bit more

[88b]

Have a look at a 30" or 32 " Miroku MK 38 for yourself and an auto for your wife, Beretta A400 or a Benelli , both multi choke and light quality guns. Personally I'd stick to 12 g never ever a chance of sticking a 20 g in a 12 then and cheaper. Good luck with what ever you go for.

[welshwarrior]

Agreed and the reason I want to get decent guns properly fitted right from the start, much better to start with a gun that fits you rather than start off by adapting yourself to the gun and then having to correct everything when you get a gun that is fitted. My match rifle was an Anschutz 1913 supermatch with pretty much fully adjustable everything and then I adapted it a bit more

Until you've both fully established your gun mounts we can't get you a fully fitted gun we can get close enough, they may need a little adjustment later on.

 

Personally I would avoid a semi for a novice unless really needed. I personally feel a 32" is not ideal for a beginner until you've developed the muscle memory and skill to full control those barrels 30" for a man and 28" for most ladies in 12 bore work very well on 95% of targets.

[HDAV]

Personally I would avoid a semi for a novice unless really needed. I personally feel a 32" is not ideal for a beginner until you've developed the muscle memory and skill to full control those barrels 30" for a man and 28" for most ladies in 12 bore work very well on 95% of targets.

I have to agree! 21g carts will do you both fine to start and makes life easier. MK38 30" multichoke for you and a lighter 28" for her perhaps an MK60 fixed choke 1/4 and 1/2. Beretta 686/7 worth a look buy clean used around £8-1200 each

[Del T]

My wife uses a Beretta prevail pro sport 12bore very well and she is only slim. We both use the same 24gram carts so can buy in bulk for a better deal.

 

The only thing for your wife to consider is gun fit, after my wife lost some weight after giving birth her gun doesn't fit properly, so she needs an adjustable comb and some other work. It wasn't too bad a fit beforehand.

Also we use skeet and a quarter choke in both guns and can hit some tricky long range stuff now and again.

[Westward]

Unfortunately, combining 'light' and 'low recoil' is a problem of incompatible objectives. Free recoil is proportional to gun weight; the lighter the gun the more the recoil for a given shell, so there are no free lunches to be had. Guns always feel awkward & uncomfortable to a complete novice and there's a natural response that lighter would be easier to manage. Plus which, almost everyone gets banged around and bruised at first, but there are loads of women out there happily shooting 12s with 28g shells.

 

I believe that there's no point trying to find ways to fix a problem before it actually is a problem, and in my experience, women seem to handle recoil just as well as men but often need some minor adjustments to the stock to achieve a reasonable fit.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Westward

[Travlaa]

Agreed and the reason I want to get decent guns properly fitted right from the start, much better to start with a gun that fits you rather than start off by adapting yourself to the gun and then having to correct everything when you get a gun that is fitted. My match rifle was an Anschutz 1913 supermatch with pretty much fully adjustable everything and then I adapted it a bit more

Hi Bryn, had the same issue. As my other half was struggling with the weight of my Miroku MK60 12bore, too heavy in the barrels. She tried a few in the shop and had a shoot with a Browning 525 20bore, absolutely loved it so she bought it. If you feed them 21gram cartridges it hardly kicks at all, in fact it kicks less than my Miroku, although I am sure if you fed it 28grams they would kick a bit more.

 

 

I have to agree! 21g carts will do you both fine to start and makes life easier. MK38 30" multichoke for you and a lighter 28" for her perhaps an MK60 fixed choke 1/4 and 1/2. Beretta 686/7 worth a look buy clean used around £8-1200 each

I have a MK60 which is choked to 1/4 and 3/4, I believe they are all at that. Only seen one other that was 1/4 and 1/2

[HDAV]

Hi Bryn, had the same issue. As my other half was struggling with the weight of my Miroku MK60 12bore, too heavy in the barrels. She tried a few in the shop and had a shoot with a Browning 525 20bore, absolutely loved it so she bought it. If you feed them 21gram cartridges it hardly kicks at all, in fact it kicks less than my Miroku, although I am sure if you fed it 28grams they would kick a bit more.

 

 

I have a MK60 which is choked to 1/4 and 3/4, I believe they are all at that. Only seen one other that was 1/4 and 1/2

 

You can have them opened up there are a couple of options from the factory IIRC but most seem to be ordered at 1/4 and 3/4 (3/4 tighter than necessary for general clays IMO)

Winchester do a select light that is 2.7kg compare to 3.4kg of the MK60 (2.7kg is the same weight as the B525 hunter light 20G)

http://www.winchesterint.com/winchester/products/mresult.php?group1=1&group2=1&group3=&submod=A-WSELT

 

http://browning.eu/products/mresult.php?group1=1&group2=1&group3=105&submod=A-HTRLICL20

 

2.7KG is the weight of the Beretta ultra light 12G

Edited March 24, 2014 by HDAV

[Westward]

Bryn, your partner will soon get used to a standard weight 12 if it's (a) well balanced and (b) properly adjusted to fit a woman.

 

Every newcomer thinks they would like to have a gun that's "light, low recoil and pretty" but light is a disadvantage for both clay shooting and for recoil, plus which, good though they are, 20 bores just aren't as effective as 12s at breaking clays. An 8lb gun will seem heavy to her at first but I guarantee that if she starts with an UltraLight 12 or a 20 bore, within 6 months she'll want a full weight 12 bore clay gun.

 

Light guns and 20 bores have their uses of course - but for most people clay shooting isn't one of them.

[Bryn12]

Thanks everyone, plenty to think about, I believe mrs bryn has signed up and is just waiting for admin to let her loose on here.

 

I see the nearest place that stocks Browning, Miroku and Winchester is the North Ayrshire ground/continental I see they also have some Berettas in stock too so will try and organise something in the next couple of weeks.

 

Roughly fitted is fine as a starting point

[MrsBryn12]

Yes, I is here.

 

Thanks for all the advice. I suppose it is the wuss in me. Recoil doesn't bother me as such, but having a black shoulder from bruising did. I was given a 12 bore Beretta of some description and just couldn't get on with it at all. It was too big, and the ache in my arms detracted from what I was trying to do.

 

I then had the lesson, and the easiest, most comfortable to use was the 20 bore. I find the stocks miles too long on most guns people let me look at. I think it was a miroku but I'm not sure. I'm not 'up' on guns.

 

Went to the next shoot where I got given a 12 bore miroku to try. The weight wasn't bad, it was lighter than the Beretta, and I felt instinctively happier with it. This will probably sound silly, and it's the only way I can think to describe, but I found the 20 easier to 'aim' and handle. I could actually hit things with that, the 12 bores I got nowhere near bar one lucky fluke.