Greenhorn Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 Morning everyone just a question, about lining my bitch ess with dog ess when lining a bitch how old can the dog be as I've been told not to use an old dog. Is this true as I know of 2 danm good dogs but they are both pretty old. If you are not ment to use an old why? I would greatly appreciate your feedback as I would like to get her lined this November which will be her 3rd season in heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 How old is pretty old ?. An old dog may be no longer fertile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konnie Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 when I bred dogs I would not use either over 6 yrs old remember you are after the best you can get not just a dog at the end of the day, as in humans the genes weaken with age. first time through 100% then you get a copy of a copy then a copy of this copy can you see how it works atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 Sorry but I can't agree, genes are genes whether from an older dog or a pup. My worry would be fertility Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 I didn't think it really mattered with an older dog as long as still working. There will be plenty of stud dogs older than 6, some a lot older I'd say go for it esp when u know and like the dogs, just check there breeding/pedigree suits ur's and u think the dogs strengths should compliment any of ur bitches weaknesses and vice vesra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 I didn't think it really mattered with an older dog as long as still working. There will be plenty of stud dogs older than 6, some a lot older I'd say go for it esp when u know and like the dogs, just check there breeding/pedigree suits ur's and u think the dogs strengths should compliment any of ur bitches weaknesses and vice vesra Very true, if the dog is capable of mating and is still fertile,with a good sperm count, I would go for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 (edited) . Edited April 6, 2014 by Bazooka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konnie Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 Sorry but I can't agree, genes are genes whether from an older dog or a pup. My worry would be fertility so the kennel club are wrong GP's not keen on older mothers and why does a cut on your hand take longer to heal, the body regenerates as I said copies itself any one or anything can get pregnant its about what you want the product to be like or the mother to survive (see a vet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 You 'v e picked up the wrong end of the stick, it's a young bitch with an older dog. I completely agree that older bitches , over 6, shouldn't be put into pup but no problems with an older dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 Sorry but I can't agree, genes are genes whether from an older dog or a pup. My worry would be fertility That's not entirely true, more problems occur in the offspring of older parents in all creatures. It was once though this just applied to the female but new research is showing the male line of great importance (not impotence , importance as regards the quality of the genetic material) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 Show me the evidence to support this theory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenhorn Posted April 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 Thank for the feedback lads, and yes my bitch is a young dog just over year old. Cheers Scotslad ill go for the dog with good background, good character, thaks again lads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felly100 Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 Why do you want to have pups off her? Is she a proven worker? Sorry to get all THL but I reckon only proven dogs and bitches should be used for breeding. Only my opinion so please don't bite my head off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Show me the evidence to support this theory Most recently a study has been all over the press about an older guys sperm leading to learning difficulties and a higher rate of inherited conditions. Its also well known that conditions Downs syndrome is far more prevalent in older parents. This sort of stuff is actually getting a massive amount of attention at present and it makes perfect sense, fertility in both male and female lines drops with age because simply put its not of the same quality as it was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scutt Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 ARE WE TALKING DOGS OR THE OWNERS OFFSPRING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 It was evidence in the canine ,not human field, I was after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 It was evidence in the canine ,not human field, I was after. Sorry but biologically we are both mammals, there is no money or funding to do this to as high a level in dogs (in deed many might loose money as regards stud fees). How on earth could you say for sure a dog bred from an older sire had leaning difficulties that were not the fault of the female line or its training environment? Then reference that through its earlier offspring? I suppose then do like studies on hundreds of other like sires? If you want this then your never going to get it proof positive in K9's, so humans will have to do. Many commercial livestock breeders also believe in the weaker genetic material passed on by older animals and retire such an animal long before the fertility level drops appreciably (this fertility issue also points to the weakening theory if you open your mind up and think on that fact alone). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee-kinsman Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Honestly people don't half make some rubbish up and believe some rubbish as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wj939 Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 greenhorn, how old are you talking? 8,9? Just over 1 is still quite young to be looking at breeding from her, How many seasons has she had? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Most recently a study has been all over the press about an older guys sperm leading to learning difficulties and a higher rate of inherited conditions. Its also well known that conditions Downs syndrome is far more prevalent in older parents. This sort of stuff is actually getting a massive amount of attention at present and it makes perfect sense, fertility in both male and female lines drops with age because simply put its not of the same quality as it was Interesting though that the report states............. Wyrobek noted that these differences in finding suggest that factors other than age may be involved, raising the possibility that socioeconomic or dietary factors or ethnic background may also be involved in how age affects the quality of human sperm. Perhaps we should ensure the sire is from the correct socioeconomic group, say an A or B rather than a D. Oh, hang on, that won't work because D is working class and that's what we want our pups to become ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenhorn Posted April 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Hi there felly100 she does work she retrieves good (dummy's, and game), quarters good, and she's a good flusher, walk to heel on and off lead. She sits on the whistle, I was thinking of putting a few videos of her working and training. She is by no means a seasoned, but she goes out shooting with me every Sunday she retrieves every time. I would like 1 litter from her as her seasons fall in the shoot season. Thanks again for input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felly100 Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Go for it mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Firstly I wouldn't breed at bitch under two year old, my own judgement but a bitch at a year old is not physically mature. But if lining a bitch the age of the dog wouldn't worry me one bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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