Gordon R Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Nial - I suspect you won't get an answer, which holds water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 For anyone who is properly interested have a read of http://www.infertrust.org/armed_domestic_violence.asp. You're kidding right? Do you know who the 'Infer Trust' are, and who they're run by? Perhaps you'd like to share some 'statistics' from the Gun Control Network too? After all, they're one and the same!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 It makes one want to weep don't it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 who made all that stuff up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Ehb102 Have you any stats from the UK and ideally not from antis including RSPCA etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedster Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 I love that they say I'm one of.... those who have instant access to legally held 'weapons of mass destruction'. Because I own a shotgun. Blimey, who writes that stuff for them, Tony Blair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzy518 Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 I went through this last year. Me n the missus going through hard time and I had one of my supervisors and my Feo turn up to take my guns. I'm also a copper. The line I was given was that it would look even worse if a copper went on the rampage with a gun! I got the federation involved , told work that if I was to be trusted to go out with Pava, Taser n baton etc, and am considered fit for duty then they got no right to keep my legally held firearms. It took a month, had supporting emails from my immediate supervisor and a meeting with head of firearms licensing but got them back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighteye Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) .... Edited April 19, 2014 by nighteye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Sliding gun rack for inside large cabinets with reversible up/down configuration to expand space in existing storage without having to buy another cabinet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Makes as much sense as the post on statistics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighteye Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Was meant to be in the thread for the young man asking for project ideas. , just noticed ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamey Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Someone from Newfoundland :-) Lmao! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehb102 Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Nial - I suspect you won't get an answer, which holds water. That is the rudest post I have seen regarding anything I've written on Pigeon Watch. I would like to point out to some of the other posters in this thread that Google exists and if you want to know about some things you are free to look them up. I'm happy to help anyone who asks politely, but demands do not work.I am not responsible for your education any more than you are responsible for mine. If I asked in that tone of voice for some of your expertise I'd get short shrift. Nor am I personally responsible for the state of the Nation, two thousand years of gender politics or any other fact that leads us here. The problem of statistics is that the UK is particularly bad at cultural femicide i.e. removing evidence of women's contribution to and participation in Society. Even simple information such as the percentage of shotgun certificate holders who are women is not published or available. Why not, when they ask for gender on the licence application form? Anyway, the UK recording of domestic violence crimes is utterly terrible, largely thanks to issues with the Police (that are starting to be addressed thank goodness.) There is a problem with the Police's handling of domestic violence because they have traditionally seen everything as isolated incidents whereas domestic violence is a pattern of coercive control. This means the UK data on domestic violence is frustratingly patchy and the more we are learning the more frustrating the gaps are. What is apparent is that domestic violence is much more common that anyone would like to believe. Everyone working in the field is doing the best they can with what they have. Thankfully the homicide data sample in the UK is not big enough to be significant. There simply aren't enough of them to "prove" anything, let alone cross referencing that data with other sets. So we use data that is out there, in the same way that if someone did a study of lung cancer in smokers on Americans we'd expect the results to apply here as people are people. Do you know who the 'Infer Trust' are, and who they're run by? You know, I found that out recently when I was working on something that runs quite counter to what they aim for. However they have go reasonable numbers produced in a respectable way so no matter what their political slant we can't discount the research. Certainly saying "But Canadian men are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to English men" doesn't hold water, especially when our knowledge base of domestic violence is pretty damn shabby. As some posters pointed out men can be victims of domestic violence too. In fact in some forms of what the Home Office calls "intimate violence" there is little gender difference. This is in things such as stalking. If anyone feels they need help I suggest http://www.mensadviceline.org.uk/. If anyone needs really specific help PM me. I work with people on both sides of the relationship, without judgement. So given all this, I'm still not surprised that the OP's superiors are operating on a better-safe-than-sorry policy. This should be a reflection of the greater seriousness with which the Police are starting to treat domestic violence and in no way a reflection on the OP. It could happen to any of us, My worry is that you hear so many stories about guns being damaged whilst under confiscation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 ehb102 - you need to get out more. If you write rubbish - expect incoming. I am bound to say that your last post is the most patronising, rambling, load of junk I have seen in quite some time. :whistling: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 I went through this last year. Me n the missus going through hard time and I had one of my supervisors and my Feo turn up to take my guns. I'm also a copper. The line I was given was that it would look even worse if a copper went on the rampage with a gun! I got the federation involved , told work that if I was to be trusted to go out with Pava, Taser n baton etc, and am considered fit for duty then they got no right to keep my legally held firearms. It took a month, had supporting emails from my immediate supervisor and a meeting with head of firearms licensing but got them back. You beat me to it ozzy. I had a few issues regarding my firearms some years back before I retired from the Police. It's exactly as you say. If "Joe Public" goes on a rampage with a gun then that's an issue. If a Police Officer does the same, it's a HUGE issue! It could/would severely dent the publics confidence in the Police on a national level. So no surprise really.... During my service, I had a road accident, (Lost control on an icy road) Only me and my vehicle damaged, end of.... At the time, (Winter) I had personally dealt with numerous similar collisions. Which were deemed "Non Reportables" and were only recorded for National Collision Stats", unless serious/life changing injuries were sustained. One witness, to my collision, who stated I "skidded on ice". Next thing I know, I've been given an N.I.P for dangerous/careless driving! To cut a long story short it was laughed out of court... It's ironic that a large portion of the public think the "Police" get an easy time with any "issues" they have, yet the reality is almost always totally the opposite! At least I consider I will now be treated as "Joe Public" regarding any, (hopefully none) "issues" that present themselves. I really sympathise with your current situation.... Good luck to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archiebald Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 ehb102 - you need to get out more. If you write rubbish - expect incoming. I am bound to say that your last post is the most patronising, rambling, load of junk I have seen in quite some time. :whistling: Agreed, I burst out laughing. Needs to get out of the clasroom and into the real world lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Do you know what Liz, most of us aren't homicidal maniacs that need to be reminded constantly about how we should treat women. I understand that you enjoy shooting, but .......most of us have been shooting for years without any problems and when a woman comes onto the site to almost blame us for all the women that are being shot, and then give statistics for another country, as well as pushing the agenda for the Gun Control Network, then you can see why people get their hackles up. Yes men are more likely to use a firearm against a woman than the other way around (but then again women are more likely to poison their husbands) but to put forward the arguments of organisations that would take away you new-found sport without a second look is tantamount to Turkeys promoting Christmas. I don't know what the consensus is amongst senior police officers when it comes to taking away an officers guns in the event of a domestic fall-out, but simply spouting how awful men are towards women, on a male dominated shooting forum, is a bit like waving a red rag at a bull is it not. Now kiss and make up or I'll take yer handbag off ya.. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 ehb102 - you need to get out more. If you write rubbish - expect incoming. I am bound to say that your last post is the most patronising, rambling, load of junk I have seen in quite some time. :whistling: +1 and still no help for OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 That is the rudest post I have seen regarding anything I've written on Pigeon Watch. I would like to point out to some of the other posters in this thread that Google exists and if you want to know about some things you are free to look them up. I'm happy to help anyone who asks politely, but demands do not work.I am not responsible for your education any more than you are responsible for mine. If I asked in that tone of voice for some of your expertise I'd get short shrift. Nor am I personally responsible for the state of the Nation, two thousand years of gender politics or any other fact that leads us here. The problem of statistics is that the UK is particularly bad at cultural femicide i.e. removing evidence of women's contribution to and participation in Society. Even simple information such as the percentage of shotgun certificate holders who are women is not published or available. Why not, when they ask for gender on the licence application form? Anyway, the UK recording of domestic violence crimes is utterly terrible, largely thanks to issues with the Police (that are starting to be addressed thank goodness.) There is a problem with the Police's handling of domestic violence because they have traditionally seen everything as isolated incidents whereas domestic violence is a pattern of coercive control. This means the UK data on domestic violence is frustratingly patchy and the more we are learning the more frustrating the gaps are. What is apparent is that domestic violence is much more common that anyone would like to believe. Everyone working in the field is doing the best they can with what they have. Thankfully the homicide data sample in the UK is not big enough to be significant. There simply aren't enough of them to "prove" anything, let alone cross referencing that data with other sets. So we use data that is out there, in the same way that if someone did a study of lung cancer in smokers on Americans we'd expect the results to apply here as people are people. You know, I found that out recently when I was working on something that runs quite counter to what they aim for. However they have go reasonable numbers produced in a respectable way so no matter what their political slant we can't discount the research. Certainly saying "But Canadian men are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to English men" doesn't hold water, especially when our knowledge base of domestic violence is pretty damn shabby. As some posters pointed out men can be victims of domestic violence too. In fact in some forms of what the Home Office calls "intimate violence" there is little gender difference. This is in things such as stalking. If anyone feels they need help I suggest http://www.mensadviceline.org.uk/. If anyone needs really specific help PM me. I work with people on both sides of the relationship, without judgement. So given all this, I'm still not surprised that the OP's superiors are operating on a better-safe-than-sorry policy. This should be a reflection of the greater seriousness with which the Police are starting to treat domestic violence and in no way a reflection on the OP. It could happen to any of us, My worry is that you hear so many stories about guns being damaged whilst under confiscation. Calm down, dear. Don't go all "Millie Tant" just because nobody agrees with your diatribe against the phallocratic world in which you live and men in general. If you will post biased statistics, you must expect constructive criticism. I respectfully suggest you trot over to Mumsnet, the posters on which will give a damn about your feelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Blimey.............."Phallocratic".....now there's a word to remember. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehb102 Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) Do you know what Liz, most of us aren't homicidal maniacs that need to be reminded constantly about how we should treat women. I understand that you enjoy shooting, but .......most of us have been shooting for years without any problems and when a woman comes onto the site to almost blame us for all the women that are being shot, and then give statistics for another country, as well as pushing the agenda for the Gun Control Network, then you can see why people get their hackles up. Yes men are more likely to use a firearm against a woman than the other way around (but then again women are more likely to poison their husbands) but to put forward the arguments of organisations that would take away you new-found sport without a second look is tantamount to Turkeys promoting Christmas. I don't know what the consensus is amongst senior police officers when it comes to taking away an officers guns in the event of a domestic fall-out, but simply spouting how awful men are towards women, on a male dominated shooting forum, is a bit like waving a red rag at a bull is it not. Now kiss and make up or I'll take yer handbag off ya.. G.M. Thanks, Graham. My point was simply that there is a lot of pressure at the moment coming from very good sources and it appears that the OP is feeling the effects of this. I shared some of the reasons why this pressure is building and why I don't think it's a bad thing but part of a larger movement that will actually be beneficial to Society in the long run. My stats aren't from Canada BTW, they are from "CRIMINAL STATISTICS England and Wales 2000" produced by the Home Office. I'd use stats from elsewhere though. There is growing acknowledgement of the gender bias in some kinds of violence and how that is part of a systemic problem in the UK. Sorry if that makes you all uncomfortable, but it's true. I've also acknowledge the standard "but it happens to men too" point without rubbishing it (I think that's the bit some people find patronising, but hey! damned if I do, damned if I don't). You tell me not to take it personally but really some of you should take that advice too. I don't take it personally, I'm far too academic about such things. Data is data and if there's something better than what I have I wanted to see it. Give me the right data and I'll change my view. So far I've seen that some people don't like reading what I write. I've seen suggestions that I shouldn't write it. I've not seen anything other than opinion. Me being patronising would be me NOT putting anything about this out here because I've assumed that you would be unable to understand or deal with it. I really don't have anything more to say on this subject so I won't post in this particular thread again. Just remember that I'm all for shooting and gun ownership. Yes, I'm vocal about things that aren't your priority but there's a lot of people out there vocal about the same things who think that you priority is contraindicated with theirs. Until we have more data about domestic violence than just reported police incidences then gun owners are held as a potential threat and it's impossible for the police to make decisions on confiscation of firearms based on probability, only on possibility. Unless gun owners acknowledge the possibility of legally owned guns being used illegally in a rational way then they are stuck in the fallacious claim that the probability is zero, and that is obviously untrue. Whilst the probability is greater than zero the police are doing the right thing according to their responsibilities in being proactive. Edited April 20, 2014 by ehb102 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Thanks, Graham. My point was simply that there is a lot of pressure at the moment coming from very good sources and it appears that the OP is feeling the effects of this. I shared some of the reasons why this pressure is building and why I don't think it's a bad thing but part of a larger movement that will actually be beneficial to Society in the long run. My stats aren't from Canada BTW, they are from "CRIMINAL STATISTICS England and Wales 2000" produced by the Home Office. I'd use stats from elsewhere though. There is growing acknowledgement of the gender bias in some kinds of violence and how that is part of a systemic problem in the UK. Sorry if that makes you all uncomfortable, but it's true. I've also acknowledge the standard "but it happens to men too" point without rubbishing it (I think that's the bit some people find patronising, but hey! damned if I do, damned if I don't). You tell me not to take it personally but really some of you should take that advice too. I don't take it personally, I'm far too academic about such things. Data is data and if there's something better than what I have I wanted to see it. Give me the right data and I'll change my view. So far I've seen that some people don't like reading what I write. I've seen suggestions that I shouldn't write it. I've not seen anything other than opinion. Me being patronising would be me NOT putting anything about this out here because I've assumed that you would be unable to understand or deal with it. I really don't have anything more to say on this subject so I won't post in this particular thread again. Just remember that I'm all for shooting and gun ownership. Yes, I'm vocal about things that aren't your priority but there's a lot of people out there vocal about the same things who think that you priority is contraindicated with theirs. Until we have more data about domestic violence than just reported police incidences then gun owners are held as a potential threat and it's impossible for the police to make decisions on confiscation of firearms based on probability, only on possibility. Unless gun owners acknowledge the possibility of legally owned guns being used illegally in a rational way then they are stuck in the fallacious claim that the probability is zero, and that is obviously untrue. Whilst the probability is greater than zero the police are doing the right thing according to their responsibilities in being proactive. Feeling sleepy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) ehb102 - glad you are abstaining from further posts. The pretentious, higher moral ground approach is beginning to grate. It would be good if you could make your point without trying to appear brighter. Your contributions suggest the exact opposite. Edited April 20, 2014 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 My stats aren't from Canada BTW, they are from "CRIMINAL STATISTICS England and Wales 2000" produced by the Home Office. I'd use stats from elsewhere though. You're using statistics from 14 years ago? A quick google search will show latest figures show that 7% of women and 5% of men have reported domestic abuse. Thanks for your 'standard acknowledgement' that men suffer too. 800,000 men in fact. Of course that doesn't detract from the abuse of women, any woman, but if you're going to take a feminist stance and shout from the rooftops that only women suffer, with just a cursory mention of male abuse then I'm afraid your case is badly flawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Gordon R, on 19 Apr 2014 - 4:29 PM, said: Nial - I suspect you won't get an answer, which holds water. That is the rudest post I have seen regarding anything I've written on Pigeon Watch. In what way was this rude? And he was correct. Those questions again..... "How do you define male privelege? What rights do men have that women don't have." Nial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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