Looking for a new pup

[Bazooka]

Martin Pipe

[gazbev]

There is a highly regarded breeder on the isle of Skye, because it's Scotland she doesn't dock but fully health tests.

http://www.sgurr.org.uk

And in N/E Scotland

http://www.druimmuirspaniels.co.uk/dogs-for-sale/

 

If they haven't got anything,they will know who has,start with Edith at Sgurr if I were you, if you can't find anything join

http://www.gundogtrainingforum.co.uk/phpbb/

Put an ad in there and tell them what you want,you might have to travel but someone will help you,it's a good time of year to be looking.

Let us know how you get on,good luck.

[Bazooka]

It's Enid, not Edith she has a litter due soon.

[gazbev]

Oops she would chop them off if she knew I forgot her name,she has helped me a lot.

[Berettacocker]

I agree with kent , what the op should look for is a good keeper/beater bred dog with a some red in the pedigree and not all the other names being FTW/FTAW. Reason I say this is most pups from top trialers ie predominately red,tend to be "hot" ( most trialers train lots of dogs, and the hot ones can have quirks/faults. When dogs show this and the trainer can't eradicate it they sell them on). What I'm saying is start with a fiesta and get a Ferrari later on. Kent's advice was sound arb Darren

[PERCE]

The best advice is ignore kent and there are some who know what they are talking about. The last post on nags is complete horse poop worse than his usual tripe.

 

 

Just seen this, very succinct!

[Bazooka]

There ae too many breeding **** these days for profit. Like the guy not a million miles from me with a little cocker bitch that sqeaks and whines like a little baby as soon as it's put into a shooting environment.He recently sought out a cheap stud, travelled a hundred miles or so, had his bitch lined and returned a happy man.The stud dog he used is also one of these " gamekeeper bred" type dogs " just a steady away thing" . It also winges on like baby needing a feed. The bitch needs tethering when sitting in a hide. On pheasant drives she's unreliable, noisy, unsteady and her mouth with certain types of game, is questionable. Her name and the name of the stud dog, will both be there on the pups' pedigree in black. Now, for the life of me, I can't see how, Joe Bloggs who is looking for a nice wee reliable cocker pup, is ever going to know whether or not these pups have a chance to be reliable, without knowing both dam and sire? If both sire and dams names where in red then you can more or less hang your hat on the fact that they have been tested in good company and judged by people who know exactly what is exected or required from the breed and they passed the test.

 

If you dont know both the parents (dam and sire) well then red in the pedigree is the only indicator you will have that the pups have a good chance to be reliable.

 

Edited to add.

 

One of the biggest problems is shooting people not knowing exactly what standard is required from dogs they own or breed from. Many of them have never been in the company of something that is sound in all departments. Most of them comment on trials dogs without ever seeing a trial dog work. A large number of them don't recognise certain faults in their own dogs as faults and 99% of them are led like sheep into believing trial breeding is the devil itself.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Bazooka

[kent]

There ae too many breeding **** these days for profit. Like the guy not a million miles from me with a little cocker bitch that sqeaks and whines like a little baby as soon as it's put into a shooting environment.He recently sought out a cheap stud, travelled a hundred miles or so, had his bitch lined and returned a happy man.The stud dog he used is also one of these " gamekeeper bred" type dogs " just a steady away thing" . It also winges on like baby needing a feed. The bitch needs tethering when sitting in a hide. On pheasant drives she's unreliable, noisy, unsteady and her mouth with certain types of game, is questionable. Her name and the name of the stud dog, will both be there on the pups' pedigree in black. Now, for the life of me, I can't see how, Joe Bloggs who is looking for a nice wee reliable cocker pup, is ever going to know whether or not these pups have a chance to be reliable, without knowing both dam and sire? If both sire and dams names where in red then you can more or less hang your hat on the fact that they have been tested in good company and judged by people who know exactly what is exected or required from the breed and they passed the test.

 

If you dont know both the parents (dam and sire) well then red in the pedigree is the only indicator you will have that the pups have a good chance to be reliable.

You know a spaniel trail never includes sitting still in a hide and some retriever trials can be won without the dog entering water, to make up a FTch the retriever will have had a water test though this is often just an easy afterthought, a spaniel will never have to wait around in a hide though.

 

The ultimate is to have seen both parents doing what you personally need the pup to do and doing it well and for all the heath checks and inbreeding factors looked at. Still no guarantees

[Bazooka]

I know very well a spaniel does not sit in a hide during a trial. you like to cherry pick and twist things Kent. If you would like to re read my post;the part "As soon as she's put into a shooting environment"

 

Spaniel trials are the same, a trial can be won without a dog entering water but before a dog can attain FTCh status it needs to have a basic water test after winning it's second open trial. Any gundog that can't work in water is not a gundog, it's extremely rare ( in my experience) to have a dog that wouldn't work water and I've not seen one that wouldn't. Coincidentally the very cocker bitch that was bred from, really struggled with entering water as an adult dog and to my knowledge, never 100 % got over it.

[lee-kinsman]

Hi all, I'm in the proses of looking for a new pup as a family pet and to train as a gun dog.

 

I have heart set on a ess as does the wife

 

At the moment I have a old collie x lab bitch she is easy going and enjoys having other dogs about to play with so I'm confident she will be good with a pup about

 

We both have a fair bit of free time to walk and train a new pup, and there is always someone in the house day and night as I no a ess needs plenty of exercise

 

I'm just wondering what's the best place to start looking for a pup and any tips or advise on what to look out for and what to try and avoid .?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Regards Mark

You want a pet and working dog get a one with a field trialling pedigree. Many trialling dogs will chill out at home or stay calm on shooting peg if trained with patience and consistancy.

[kent]

I know very well a spaniel does not sit in a hide during a trial. you like to cherry pick and twist things Kent. If you would like to re read my post;the part "As soon as she's put into a shooting environment"

 

Spaniel trials are the same, a trial can be won without a dog entering water but before a dog can attain FTCh status it needs to have a basic water test after winning it's second open trial. Any gundog that can't work in water is not a gundog, it's extremely rare ( in my experience) to have a dog that wouldn't work water and I've not seen one that wouldn't. Coincidentally the very cocker bitch that was bred from, really struggled with entering water as an adult dog and to my knowledge, never 100 % got over it.

its been common in some gundog breeds HRRs for instance to play up when it comes to water

[Bazooka]

Of course it has, just like it's been common for certain makes of umbrella's to leak or walking boots to take in water or training dummies designed to float that actually sink, the fact is, more times than not, if you seek out quality, do your homework and ask the experienced people in that field, it will always come back down to the same answer, seek out the best quality you can, for the job you require and that way you give yourself the best chance possible.Going back to your post though Kent, the fact remains, IT IS extremely rare for a gundog not to want to enter water providing it has been schooled properly and the HPR breeds that have problems are small in comparison to every other gundog type or breed out there. So although it might be "common" in HPR's, on the whole, it's rare.

[Berettacocker]

If you want a quiet steady peg dog get a lab! Seriously,I trained up a well bred ess both parents ran in the championships. I trained him to field trial standards but never ever trialled him and went on to shoot pigeons and use him on the peg, where he was a "hot" he developed the worst wine ever (these dogs get so pent up they need to let it out, inevitably through voice) what I'm saying is most dogs like this come from hot lines so best to find a pup from a quiet steady bitch and dog. Also referring to dogs in water if you do plenty of water work with your dog he/she will come to love it, and hopefully not let you down on the big day

[Bazooka]

If you want a quiet steady peg dog get a lab! Seriously,I trained up a well bred ess both parents ran in the championships. I trained him to field trial standards but never ever trialled him and went on to shoot pigeons and use him on the peg, where he was a "hot" he developed the worst wine ever (these dogs get so pent up they need to let it out, inevitably through voice) what I'm saying is most dogs like this come from hot lines so best to find a pup from a quiet steady bitch and dog. Also referring to dogs in water if you do plenty of water work with your dog he/she will come to love it, and hopefully not let you down on the big day

Ok, so you selected parents that had trialled but were not red? What is your point?

[Berettacocker]

No, the parents of my dog were top trialers who wouldn't have qualified for the championship if they hadn't previously won a trial, but this was my choice of dog for me. The original post was to help Mark L find a suitable ESS and by his questions sound like a relative novice, so answering this I'd say avoid the above type dog.

[kent]

Of course it has, just like it's been common for certain makes of umbrella's to leak or walking boots to take in water or training dummies designed to float that actually sink, the fact is, more times than not, if you seek out quality, do your homework and ask the experienced people in that field, it will always come back down to the same answer, seek out the best quality you can, for the job you require and that way you give yourself the best chance possible.Going back to your post though Kent, the fact remains, IT IS extremely rare for a gundog not to want to enter water providing it has been schooled properly and the HPR breeds that have problems are small in comparison to every other gundog type or breed out there. So although it might be "common" in HPR's, on the whole, it's rare.

 

As is whining at the peg, my point is just if its never been tested to do such a thing as you want is it quality in the eye of the beholder? I don't wish to run down HPRs btw I used to go wildfowling with mine

[Bazooka]

If you want a quiet steady peg dog get a lab! Seriously,I trained up a well bred ess both parents ran in the championships. I trained him to field trial standards but never ever trialled him and went on to shoot pigeons and use him on the peg, where he was a "hot" he developed the worst wine ever (these dogs get so pent up they need to let it out, inevitably through voice) what I'm saying is most dogs like this come from hot lines so best to find a pup from a quiet steady bitch and dog. Also referring to dogs in water if you do plenty of water work with your dog he/she will come to love it, and hopefully not let you down on the big day

 

If this actually happened,then why also write this in a different thread?

 

I'd avoid the pointer mate ( brilliant on the moors worked with a falcon) a well bred cocker or springer will be a much better bet for your requirements. Plus pointers are prone to being hard mouthed by nature!

 

Got my own thoughts on why AM

Edited May 8, 2014 by Bazooka

[Berettacocker]

No I read it in the Bible! The top one was more of a heated debate with conflicting answers. The pointer one was an honest answer to a question about suitability of the breed. If the question was about spaniel I would have answered accordingly . I suggest any dog related posts get run by you first!

[Bazooka]

 

No I read it in the Bible! The top one was more of a heated debate with conflicting answers. The pointer one was an honest answer to a question about suitability of the breed. If the question was about spaniel I would have answered accordingly . I suggest any dog related posts get run by you first!

The top one was bu******. As was the pointer one.

[Berettacocker]

Your hard work mate. You'd row with yourself! Look forward to your next master class training DVD s Ha

[E.w.]

Mark buy yourself a corgi at least it could bite the clowns that give bull**** advise on here.

[kent]

No I read it in the Bible! The top one was more of a heated debate with conflicting answers. The pointer one was an honest answer to a question about suitability of the breed. If the question was about spaniel I would have answered accordingly . I suggest any dog related posts get run by you first!

I read the two posts as unrelated, it cant be just me but there comes a point when you need to read without adding bits and just go on what the poster said. One relates to hunting (which is what a spaniel breed does) the other relates to sitting still (which it can do but isn't in its breed brief so to speak). Fair play to you I think most straight thinking persons will see it that way

[Bazooka]

One day he suggests " A well bred springer", would suit a guy looking for his first dog

 

The following day in another thread he suggests that his "well bred springer" that "he trained up" was too "hot" to handle and suggests to find a pup from something different.

 

 

Whether he's right on either account is not my concern, just couldn't see how he can suggest in one thread one thing then the following day completely do an about turn and say something totally the opposite

[kent]

One day he suggests " A well bred springer", would suit a guy looking for his first dog

 

The following day in another thread he suggests that his "well bred springer" that "he trained up" was too "hot" to handle and suggests to find a pup from something different.

 

 

Whether he's right on either account is not my concern, just couldn't see how he can suggest in one thread one thing then the following day completely do an about turn and say something totally the opposite

Your just "different" in the way you see things. I might recommend I smart car or similar to a youngster starting out driving, be a fat lot of use to a rep clocking up 150k a year on the motorways though, purposes are different as are people. My wife I should pass the 12 ga auto with 3" shells if she was going on a goose flight do I see it better than the double 10 I have? no, but it is in her smaller hands as the big double weighs in at around 13lb with 32" barrels. The purpose in the last case is exactly the same but the person is different, "having the right jokey on the right horse" is the well known phrase.

[Bazooka]

Both seperate threads were by people wanting a first dog to train as a gundog? He gave two totally conflicting answers The reasons he gave are by-the-by it's two totally different responses to what is actually the same question.