Hatsan AT44-10 Power

[evo]

Please explain Evo!

I will explain,,without the need to be sarcastic like your good self sir,,

 

firstly,,why is the point of impact changing when you take the mod off

 

secondly you have clearly stated that your poi is changing when you use a lighter pellet and also a heavier pellet . this is what you have clearly stated in your post,

 

ok I,ll explain why I said I would get shut of my rifle if it was doing that,,

 

firstly as an example:: if I was using a 16g pellet (obviously .22) and it was bang on my crosshairs at 35yrds, when I used a lighter pellet ie 14g then I would expect the pellet to have a higher poi,

 

if I used a heavier pellet than the 16g ie a 21 g or 18g pellet then I would expect the point of impact to be lower than the 16grain pellet,

 

as you clearly stated your rifle is shooting all over the place when you use a heavier pellet, ie its poi is higher than a lighter pellet then in that case you would basically be guessing where the poi would be,

 

also you then clearly stated that the poi is changing when you take the mod/silencer off ,, why is this , none of my rifles change there poi when I take the mod off,,the poi does not change at all,

 

now I am talking about my rifles,

 

so on reading your post you made it sound like your gun is shooting all over the place be it a light pellet or heavy pellet, but how a heavier pellet can have a higher poi than a light pellet is beyond me,

 

but then in your last breath you say it kills everything its pointed at,,

 

I,ll state it again and I,m not being funny either, but if any of my rifles where performing as YOU say your rifle is then I,m sorry but I would not know where the hell I was with it so I would get shut,,

 

I was not being offensive in any way I was just merely stating that I would not to be able to know what the gun was going to do next,,

 

with regards your "old timers" comment,, just remember one thing,,,,,you cannot beat experience in the field, but please refrain from silly comments aimed at older people,,

 

not all of us are perfect so I apologise for that,,

 

also before I forget,,how can adjusting your trigger affect the poi ,, from your comments it sounds like your rifle is falling to bits,

 

You stick to your AT44 10 and I,ll stick to my Daystates,,at least I know where I am with them instead of worrying where the pellet is going to land

 

cheers Evo

[chrisjpainter]

Good point Whitetail and also a credulous one. There seems to be a few old timers on here that have incredulous and vacuous comments but time served on PW forums out weighs facts.

*reaches for the popcorn*

this should be fun...

 

Calling them old timers is rather a silly thing to do. It kind of indicates that they have a wealth of experience and knowledge behind them to back up their opinions. I'd rather hang out with old timers and be able to learn of them than a bunch of morons from whom I can learn nothing. I see you still have a chip on your shoulder about the number of posts people have. It's often because they have information to pass on. People tend not to stick around too long if they're just talking nonsense all the time! Those who have a high number of posts are normally those whose contributions are valued and are the backbone of a decent forum. Going round insulting them is a bad idea. Disagreeing is fine, insulting them is not, especially in a way that smacks of arrogance.

 

Your posts on this thread thus far haven't inspired confidence. As Norfolk goose has pointed out, adding a silencer to the end should have minimal (VERY minimal!) effect on the energy developed by the gun. You asked us to do a simple test that'd prove your point with the mod. I'm afraid to say in the past I have, with different types of silencers and shrouds on different makes of guns. I'm yet to find one that has had the POI alter. (er...except a mk4 airstream silencer that was being clipped as the pellet flew through and my R10's shroud which wasn't aligned properly!)

 

You say that a PCP works on the principle of the longer the barrel, the more energy produced, which is true (to a point), but the silencer is NOT part of that. Essentially, an air rifle relies on an airtight unit, where air is forced against the path of least resistance - the pellet. but the moment a pellet is in the shroud or the silencer, it is no longer sealed, air escapes into the silencer/shroud and isn't only pushing against the pellet. The trajectory of the pellet shouldn't be altered - assuming it's aligned properly and not just ploughing into the internals! - but the moment it is unable to stop the air escaping out from behind it, the energy imparted onto the pellet begins to drop. This begins when the pellet leaves the snug confines of the rifled barrel and enters the big scary world of first the silencer, then the open air.

 

As I type, evo's responded nicely to your request for elaboration, so I'll leave that, except to say evo? +1.

[Bluebarrels]

Yep I think evo's come back with a well worded/sensible post that explains things pretty clearly BB

[Whitetail]

I've been using precharged air rifles since the early eighties( daystates) and theobens the last 15-20 years, also center fires the last ten years or so and they all shot/shoot to a different point of aim when moderated or not. That this at odds with evos experience is neither here or there ,we're using different rifles ,we're probably both right . It's to late now but you would have been better off buying a second hand air arms 300/400 series or a weihrauch hw100 than a new hatsan and had a proven accurate rifle .

[oddjobs]

Ok sarcasm aside.

There is some science around why there is a difference between poi with moderator on and off. Springers won't change due how the energy is delivered to the pellet.

PCP rifles will give more energy to the pellet the longer the barrel as the air is forcing the pellet to gather velocity until it leaves the barrel.

Take any PCP rifle in carbine and the long barrel. The long barrel has more shots per fill than the carbine. The carbine has to put more air into the firing chamber to give equal power.

Now swap the barrels and you now have an under powered rifle and an over powered one.

So taking a moderator off shortens barrel length and thus reducing power.

 

As for pellet weights each rifle is different and certain pellet weights, diameters and shapes will suit one and not the other.

 

My dad recently acquired a Webley Axsor with out a mod and it chrono at 10.9ftlb we put a moderator on it to quieten it down and now the chrono is 11.5ftlb

[NickP]

i have a new AT44-10 The gun seams to be able to hit a tight group, though i am still trying my best to improve my tight grouping.#

 

I had it chronoed at 11.4ftlb when i bought it, and on sunday it chroned at 11.3ftlbs, both with AA Diablo field .22 with silencer on

 

I'll shoot tonight to see what crack is with the silencer on and off (i can't chrono it though)

[Mentalmac]

I will explain,,without the need to be sarcastic like your good self sir,,

 

firstly,,why is the point of impact changing when you take the mod off

 

secondly you have clearly stated that your poi is changing when you use a lighter pellet and also a heavier pellet . this is what you have clearly stated in your post,

 

ok I,ll explain why I said I would get shut of my rifle if it was doing that,,

 

firstly as an example:: if I was using a 16g pellet (obviously .22) and it was bang on my crosshairs at 35yrds, when I used a lighter pellet ie 14g then I would expect the pellet to have a higher poi,

 

if I used a heavier pellet than the 16g ie a 21 g or 18g pellet then I would expect the point of impact to be lower than the 16grain pellet,

 

as you clearly stated your rifle is shooting all over the place when you use a heavier pellet, ie its poi is higher than a lighter pellet then in that case you would basically be guessing where the poi would be,

 

also you then clearly stated that the poi is changing when you take the mod/silencer off ,, why is this , none of my rifles change there poi when I take the mod off,,the poi does not change at all,

 

now I am talking about my rifles,

 

so on reading your post you made it sound like your gun is shooting all over the place be it a light pellet or heavy pellet, but how a heavier pellet can have a higher poi than a light pellet is beyond me,

 

but then in your last breath you say it kills everything its pointed at,,

 

I,ll state it again and I,m not being funny either, but if any of my rifles where performing as YOU say your rifle is then I,m sorry but I would not know where the hell I was with it so I would get shut,,

 

I was not being offensive in any way I was just merely stating that I would not to be able to know what the gun was going to do next,,

 

with regards your "old timers" comment,, just remember one thing,,,,,you cannot beat experience in the field, but please refrain from silly comments aimed at older people,,

 

not all of us are perfect so I apologise for that,,

 

also before I forget,,how can adjusting your trigger affect the poi ,, from your comments it sounds like your rifle is falling to bits,

 

You stick to your AT44 10 and I,ll stick to my Daystates,,at least I know where I am with them instead of worrying where the pellet is going to land

 

cheers Evo

In fairness, I think he meant that having a stiff trigger makes you 'pull' the shot more thus resulting in missing or affected groupings.

I'm like the PW bable fish translator haha

[oddjobs]

That's bang on the nail Mentalmac with regards trigger adjustment.

 

I also own a Daystate mk3 .177 and I love both rifles as they give excellent accuracy and a good clean kill :-)

 

I have found that AA field Diablo seem to work the best in both. Costs me an arm and a leg buying .22 and .177 pellets though lol

Edited July 8, 2014 by oddjobs

[NickP]

Just to add tonight I tried a group with moderator on and off

 

Aiming at the same spot, tight group with it on and the group without was together, but a inch higher on the target

 

By heck it's loader without lol