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How to pattern test?


wildfowler.250
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Well in 15 years of shooting I've never pattern tested my gun. Always gone for a 'good shell' and stuck to what works..

 

However I fancy pattern testing my gamebore mammoths in 3's and 1's over the summer for interest,(they worked great last season).

 

So what's the general method used? I was thinking 30" circle on a large bit of paper? Shoot 30, 40, 50 and 60 yards for interest? With 3 shells at each distance,(on seperate sheets of paper).

 

 

I fear this might create problems when there's already no need :lol: but interested to see how much the pattern opens up over longer distances.

Edited by wildfowler.250
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Well in 15 years of shooting I've never pattern tested my gun. Always gone for a 'good shell' and stuck to what works..

 

However I fancy pattern testing my gamebore mammoths in 3's and 1's over the summer for interest,(they worked great last season).

 

So what's the general method used? I was thinking 30" circle on a large bit of paper? Shoot 30, 40, 50 and 60 yards for interest? With 3 shells at each distance,(on seperate sheets of paper).

 

 

I fear this might create problems when there's already no need :lol: but interested to see how much the pattern opens up over longer distances.

Start with a previously fired barrel.

Only draw the 30" circle about the pattern after you've deduced its centre. It may pay to put a marker on the paper and find the relationship between that and the centre of the pattern at the shorter range as this should help to ensure that the pattern will be centred on it at the longer ranges.

Three shots will only give you a vague idea of what's what. 6 is the generally accepted norm for field use. You then just take the average - if you've not done it before you could well be surprised at the differences between each shot. I wouldn't mind betting that you'll be tempted to ignore one or more of the individual results - don't - it happened and it'll happen again. Having said that, on reflection, you could just shoot the 6 at the 40 yards to get a good assessment and get an idea from the 3 shots at the other ranges.

It's easier to take the whole lot home and sort out the results there. However, if you're going to use a marker pen to tick off as you count and you're married don't even think about using the dining table; just remember that you're marking holes. The reaction from 'er indoors can be sudden, violent and painful - I know!

Edited by wymberley
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I never ever mark the circle after I've shot, I always mark it before and a centre point to aim at,I want to see where that pattern is at that distance as to where I'm pointing the gun. To me its no good thinking my pattern is good but it's not where I'm pointing the gun, I'd never have confidence in it.

 

I pattern mine at the distance I'll be shooting and look at what's on the paper, would my quarry get through it and is there enough on the bird to do what's needed.

 

Gamebore Mammoths and Mammoth magnums pattern well with my gun and choke combo out to sixty yards, with an even spread over the board.

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What a lot of people forget about pattern testing is; what strikes the pattern plate does'nt reach the Bird/Clay in the same pattern, unless its either flying away from you or directly towards you at same height as your guns barrels.

When using a very tight choke this invariably creates a much longer shot-string, so if you are shooting a crossing / quartering / rising target not all the shot will reach the target at the same time, especially if any distance is involved so therefore what you see on your pattern-plate will not be arriving at your target!!

Now then, an example, just food for thought;

 

we shoot full choke at a 30" circle at 40yds on a pattern-plate and find that ALL the pellets are inside it!!....obviously, we've created a shot-string by tightening the choke, so...when looking at the now perfect pattern which we've all been trying to achieve for years, how do we know which pellets struck the plate first and which where last?...lets say that the 50% 0f pellets in the centre of the pattern where the last ones to hit the plate (which might be correct)...we are therefore shooting a perfect looking pattern on a plate, which has in reality a massive hole in the centre when it reaches the target!.. the trailing shot then fills this hole when it finally catches up, a few thousandths of a second later?

After reading the above, then it begs the question; IS THERE SUCH A THING AS A...GOOD / BAD PATTERN?

this is not a challenge to anyone, just food for thought.

best wishes....Dale.

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What a lot of people forget about pattern testing is; what strikes the pattern plate does'nt reach the Bird/Clay in the same pattern, unless its either flying away from you or directly towards you at same height as your guns barrels.

When using a very tight choke this invariably creates a much longer shot-string, so if you are shooting a crossing / quartering / rising target not all the shot will reach the target at the same time, especially if any distance is involved so therefore what you see on your pattern-plate will not be arriving at your target!!

Now then, an example, just food for thought;

 

we shoot full choke at a 30" circle at 40yds on a pattern-plate and find that ALL the pellets are inside it!!....obviously, we've created a shot-string by tightening the choke, so...when looking at the now perfect pattern which we've all been trying to achieve for years, how do we know which pellets struck the plate first and which where last?...lets say that the 50% 0f pellets in the centre of the pattern where the last ones to hit the plate (which might be correct)...we are therefore shooting a perfect looking pattern on a plate, which has in reality a massive hole in the centre when it reaches the target!.. the trailing shot then fills this hole when it finally catches up, a few thousandths of a second later?

After reading the above, then it begs the question; IS THERE SUCH A THING AS A...GOOD / BAD PATTERN?

this is not a challenge to anyone, just food for thought.

best wishes....Dale.

 

Thats it then Dale putting a new blade in the saw as we speak :lol::lol::lol:

 

Regards

 

H

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What a lot of people forget about pattern testing is; what strikes the pattern plate does'nt reach the Bird/Clay in the same pattern, unless its either flying away from you or directly towards you at same height as your guns barrels.

When using a very tight choke this invariably creates a much longer shot-string, so if you are shooting a crossing / quartering / rising target not all the shot will reach the target at the same time, especially if any distance is involved so therefore what you see on your pattern-plate will not be arriving at your target!!

Now then, an example, just food for thought;

 

we shoot full choke at a 30" circle at 40yds on a pattern-plate and find that ALL the pellets are inside it!!....obviously, we've created a shot-string by tightening the choke, so...when looking at the now perfect pattern which we've all been trying to achieve for years, how do we know which pellets struck the plate first and which where last?...lets say that the 50% 0f pellets in the centre of the pattern where the last ones to hit the plate (which might be correct)...we are therefore shooting a perfect looking pattern on a plate, which has in reality a massive hole in the centre when it reaches the target!.. the trailing shot then fills this hole when it finally catches up, a few thousandths of a second later?

After reading the above, then it begs the question; IS THERE SUCH A THING AS A...GOOD / BAD PATTERN?

this is not a challenge to anyone, just food for thought.

best wishes....Dale.

Are you talking steel shot? Only ask because the pattern you describe is much tighter than full choke for lead would be and also that I know nothing about steel shot (long may that last), but for lead the first pellets to arrive would be those in the pattern centre and as said although I don't know about steel, I would imagine for the same reasons but to a lesser degree, the same would apply.

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I agree with what Dale says to a certain extent, but it's still worthwhile pattern testing. I would rather still see a nice tight pattern in 2d than seeing a gappy pattern on the paper that gives you little chance of a clean kill. I'm very happy with the patterns (on paper) that I get from my Terror chokes in the 10 and 12. In my experience, 1/2 choke just isn't tight enough for consistent kills at ducks and geese on the edge of range.

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I agree with what Dale says to a certain extent, but it's still worthwhile pattern testing. I would rather still see a nice tight pattern in 2d than seeing a gappy pattern on the paper that gives you little chance of a clean kill. I'm very happy with the patterns (on paper) that I get from my Terror chokes in the 10 and 12. In my experience, 1/2 choke just isn't tight enough for consistent kills at ducks and geese on the edge of range.

Did you notice much difference either on paper or in the field between the 'normal' and the 'terror' choke?

 

I'll definitely give it a bash just to see how the gun shoots further out just for interest.

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Take it then you didn't do it last August following a virtually identical thread.

Keep 'meaning to' but finding different ways of doing it which is the reason for asking. On the Chris green DVD he adds a 30" circle after the shot,(if I remember correctly) which seems back to front.

 

I know fine what would have happened if I put a similar post up in August; my shells came in 'late' and the season would have come round too quick :lol:

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Keep 'meaning to' but finding different ways of doing it which is the reason for asking. On the Chris green DVD he adds a 30" circle after the shot,(if I remember correctly) which seems back to front.

 

I know fine what would have happened if I put a similar post up in August; my shells came in 'late' and the season would have come round too quick :lol:

No, Chris is quite correct. It just depends on whether you're looking at gun fit or a pattern test. You're 40 yards away and the circle is already drawn when you fire but 'pull' the shot - need I say more?

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Did you notice much difference either on paper or in the field between the 'normal' and the 'terror' choke?

 

I'll definitely give it a bash just to see how the gun shoots further out just for interest.

I tried several different steel shells through my half chokes and I couldn't get what I thought was a good enough pattern at 40 yards.This was after a 50 yard pink needed three shots to kill a couple of seasons back. The poor patterns were the same for my 10 and 12. That's why I started buying aftermarket chokes. The terror chokes have tightened up the patterns a hell of a lot. This showed on paper - giving me really good patterns at 50 yards with BB, 2, 3 etc. Hevi shot also patterned well. I killed some fairly tall pinks last season, something I don't think would have been possible with the chokes I was using before.

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Think most of us wildfowlers who have patterned our guns and cartridges have gone for aftermarket chokes to suit our shooting,ie the range and size of shot and quarry. My choke will shoot all types of shot and sizes but specifically gives its best patterns with BB steel shot which is what I bought it for.

 

Some have patterned their makers chokes and are happy with their patterns and carts, you can only try and see what your happy with.

 

Figgy

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I tried several different steel shells through my half chokes and I couldn't get what I thought was a good enough pattern at 40 yards.This was after a 50 yard pink needed three shots to kill a couple of seasons back. The poor patterns were the same for my 10 and 12. That's why I started buying aftermarket chokes. The terror chokes have tightened up the patterns a hell of a lot. This showed on paper - giving me really good patterns at 50 yards with BB, 2, 3 etc. Hevi shot also patterned well. I killed some fairly tall pinks last season, something I don't think would have been possible with the chokes I was using before.

 

 

Think most of us wildfowlers who have patterned our guns and cartridges have gone for aftermarket chokes to suit our shooting,ie the range and size of shot and quarry. My choke will shoot all types of shot and sizes but specifically gives its best patterns with BB steel shot which is what I bought it for.

 

Some have patterned their makers chokes and are happy with their patterns and carts, you can only try and see what your happy with.

 

Figgy

Yep.

 

What you're saying reflects what was noted during the work on NTS by the BRL. For lead, irrespective of shot size the patterns thrown by any degree of choke remained pretty much the same. For steel, again using the same choke, as the pellet size increased, the pattern tightened up. The reverse occurred in the case of the shot string. As the pellet size increased, the length of the shot string decreased when fired through the same choke. Although this was the case for both lead and steel, the length for steel was always considerably less than that for lead. Consequently,by using larger shot sizes for steel which is known to be necessary on energy grounds anyway, these two bonuses are thrown in for free. The results that you describe are backed up by the findings from the BRL research.

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Interesting point wymberley, I didn't know about the effects of pellet size on shot string.

 

 

The silly thing is that because the reaction of different steel shot sizes to any degree of choke went largely unnoticed, it meant that any comparison of patterning between the two materials was unsafe and that therefore in any discussion/argument - and there were many - it also meant that dependent upon the specific topic, either both or neither parties were correct.

 

Consequently, this is one particularly good reason why patterning steel shot is a good idea.

Edited by wymberley
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Interesting point wymberley, I didn't know about the effects of pellet size on shot string.

 

Motty - Out of interest what sort of percentage pattern could you get in the 30" with the terror choke at 50yrds with BB through the 12?

To be honest, I didn't test any BB through my 12 terror - it was too tight for those pellets (.655 constriction). I found that 3s were superb with this choke, as well as hw13 shot in no.2 (3.8mm). The pattern percentages were well into the 70s at 50 yrds.

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mmm, shouldn't over worry about shot string myself. Steel has way shorter strings than lead and from front to back your looking at milliseconds. One thing I should look at very carefully is 50 yards, the shells you mention 3" mammoth in a number three will create lots of centre pattern wounders- you will see them fold well and truly and then come back to life on the ground / water and on plucking those recovered you will find out why (energy fails before pattern). How do I know this? well I have done the tests then shot the birds, sure you will get lucky kills but start examining the birds and you will not find breast damage. Fifty yards is a long way for those shells and you percentages will not be good despite patterning and straight shooting.

 

I think the super mags will surprise you when you put them on paper as to how little extra use they are in relation to all that extra kick and bang, not to mention wallet damage. The difference between how the 10 ga handles 42 grm of steel and the 12 is astronomically different in my guns

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  • 2 weeks later...

I tried several different steel shells through my half chokes and I couldn't get what I thought was a good enough pattern at 40 yards.This was after a 50 yard pink needed three shots to kill a couple of seasons back. The poor patterns were the same for my 10 and 12. That's why I started buying aftermarket chokes. The terror chokes have tightened up the patterns a hell of a lot. This showed on paper - giving me really good patterns at 50 yards with BB, 2, 3 etc. Hevi shot also patterned well. I killed some fairly tall pinks last season, something I don't think would have been possible with the chokes I was using before.

Motty, thanks for the reply! How do you find using the terror then when you are trying to shoot duck during a goose flight? Teal are hard enough at the best of times without a really tight pattern. Or do you just take them further out?

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Yep.

 

What you're saying reflects what was noted during the work on NTS by the BRL. For lead, irrespective of shot size the patterns thrown by any degree of choke remained pretty much the same. For steel, again using the same choke, as the pellet size increased, the pattern tightened up. The reverse occurred in the case of the shot string. As the pellet size increased, the length of the shot string decreased when fired through the same choke. Although this was the case for both lead and steel, the length for steel was always considerably less than that for lead. Consequently,by using larger shot sizes for steel which is known to be necessary on energy grounds anyway, these two bonuses are thrown in for free. The results that you describe are backed up by the findings from the BRL research.

Interesting :good:

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mmm, shouldn't over worry about shot string myself. Steel has way shorter strings than lead and from front to back your looking at milliseconds. One thing I should look at very carefully is 50 yards, the shells you mention 3" mammoth in a number three will create lots of centre pattern wounders- you will see them fold well and truly and then come back to life on the ground / water and on plucking those recovered you will find out why (energy fails before pattern). How do I know this? well I have done the tests then shot the birds, sure you will get lucky kills but start examining the birds and you will not find breast damage. Fifty yards is a long way for those shells and you percentages will not be good despite patterning and straight shooting.

 

I think the super mags will surprise you when you put them on paper as to how little extra use they are in relation to all that extra kick and bang, not to mention wallet damage. The difference between how the 10 ga handles 42 grm of steel and the 12 is astronomically different in my guns

Interesting thanks! I can't say I've noticed any increased wounding with the 36g 3's,(in fact they've been great).

 

So would you suggest a larger pellet size for the 50 yard shots? Or change your choke?

 

As I say I haven't noticed a problem but interested to hear other peoples findings. I still intend to put the gun on paper for interest.

 

 

Funnily enough I'll probably be moving my 10 on. I can't see past the 12 for a mixed flight of geese and ducks.

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