Mr pigeon Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Hi guys, Very touchy subject here but this past season one of our guns was warned about his conduct of low shooting. He was spoken to and warned by two other guns on the syndicate as they are close friends. Yet again it happened and two beaters left. The last shoot of the season arrived and on the final drive the said gun shot a runner heading back into the drive, narrowly missing my dog, which I'd sent on the runner. My question is how would you guys deal with the gun in question? Oh did I forget to mention he is my farther... :0( Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruity Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 With respect father or not and he has been warned before you say I would remove him from the syndicate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 I think you know the answer mate, he's had a few warnings hasnt he.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 If he's your Dad then even more reason to remove him. If one warnings not enough, a thousand is never plenty, do it for his own sake, he'd be mortified if he shot someone. By the way any complaints about low shooting should be dealt with by the shoot captain - its not up to guns to criticise each other, one authority on a shooting day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambsman Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Its a no brainer. Not safe. Got to go. No way you could ever justify hurting someone. Not on. Sorry. But no. I cannot abide people who get their priorities wrong. Never ever shoot in an unsafe manner. Ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Ask him how he would feel if it was you his son that was shot and blinded or worse, then remind him the beaters also have Fathers and sons . Sorry to say your dad does not even sound like the sort of person who should be allowed a gun let alone using one around other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berettacocker Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Some people are oblivious to what they are doing wrong, and when you pull them up, I'm sure the don't believe you! Shot with some right numpties over the years and very seldom do they get told to put the gun in the sleeve and go. What you find is the safe guns and beaters go elsewhere where it's safer! Send your dad home mate, we don't want Rodney Trotters making us dive for cover every time we go out to shoot a few pheasants! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Had one on our shoot a couple of years back - elderly friend of our landlord. Fortunately he's dead now. Scary how he shot at low bird with woods in front of him without knowing where beaters were. I was walking down outside of wood and held my breath for a while - reported him to shoot captain who said he would speak to landlord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 The fact it's your Dad will make it awkward no doubt, but for the sake of safety it has to be done. We had a similar bloke in our rough shoot who didn't even realise he was sweeping through fellow guns in his desperation to get to low crossers, and telling him so didn't appear to register, so he had to go. One of the old boys in our syndicate was so unsteady on his feet that recoil would sometimes sit him down, and he would use his closed gun, complete with unfired second barrel, as a prop to get himself back on his feet! Nice bloke, but he went also. I sympathise with you; I wouldn't find it pleasant to have to tell my old fellah he could no longer shoot. I didn't have the heart to tell mine he was no longer fit to drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longy0710 Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Shooting at very low birds is extremely dangerous but shooting at a Runner is just asking for someone or someones dog to get seriously injured if not killed. I am surprised that after the warnings this is still happening. We had one gun on a syndicate I pick up on holding a closed shotgun horizontal across his body mid drive and many times he would look round pointing the muzzle at either the other guns or myself behind picking up. A couple of quiet but stern words with him and the dangers of what he was doing and he is now a model on gun safety and handling. It still bewilders me that some people dont realise the potential consequences of their sloppy gun handling/low shooting, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeus Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 An example here of what I think is unsafe in this two part video. Specifically one guy in the white shirt who appears as if he is patrolling the wild west. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5rr0N5I1Uqw http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KuKHr3KNrEg What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 What do you guys think? I think that if you think that we will sit and watch 2 x 45 min videos then you have another think coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I'd be walking, I don't know about telling him to walk. An example here of what I think is unsafe in this two part video. Specifically one guy in the white shirt who appears as if he is patrolling the wild west.http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5rr0N5I1Uqwhttp://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KuKHr3KNrEgWhat do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeus Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I think that if you think that we will sit and watch 2 x 45 min videos then you have another think coming. lol yes I do seem to have come across a rather long unedited version. It doesnt take long to see some bad examples of safety. And at 12:00 mins on the first video a shameful way of dispatching a wounded bird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedd-wyn Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Jeez! Truly awful gun safety, made me feel a bit sick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I am never in a position were I cannot speak up or walk off, if I was I should want him warned only one time and made crystal clear there wouldn't be a second warning. I take it you are giving a safety briefing before the shoot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 An example here of what I think is unsafe in this two part video. Specifically one guy in the white shirt who appears as if he is patrolling the wild west. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5rr0N5I1Uqw http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KuKHr3KNrEg What do you guys think? 20.55 on the first film, three flying, all down with one shot, remarkable. I watched about half the first film, there were a few low ones shot or shot at yes but nothing that looked to dangerous. No one down range that i could see. As for the guy in the syndicate, he should have been given his marching order after the second occurrence and a refund on his unshot days. People coming late in life to shooting just dont realise the dangers. Shooting pigeons to keep them off crops is one thing, but a pheasant should always be challenging, if its not a challenge then leave it. Unfortunately these days we see the "i must shoot my share " merchants. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berettacocker Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 +1 greedy b##$+^€#$ ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 A big pheasant syndicate locally has one or two 'iffy' characters as regards safety, both wealthy farmers who have 'been at it fer years', which in theory means they should know better, but don't. The main 'character' wanders around with a closed gun. The beaters know that it is empty when they set off for the first drive, but after that, no one knows whether he has unloaded the gun after the drive, or not, and no one will dare challenge him as he buys all the birds! His land isn't much use for driven birds, but being extremely wealthy he buys the birds which are reared and released on another farm. The syndicate consists of his son in law, grandsons, friends and business associates, plus the landowners family and friends. It has been like this for years, and no one will say anything to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeus Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 20.55 on the first film, three flying, all down with one shot, remarkable. I watched about half the first film, there were a few low ones shot or shot at yes but nothing that looked to dangerous. No one down range that i could see. For me its more about the general gun handling one guy has. From the video it appears that the muzzle of the gun could be pointing at others whilst he is moving about holding the gun the way he is....obviously I may be wrong....its just how how the camera shows it to be to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Afraid i'm with the rest think u ned to have a sit down and tell him no way or u may lose other guns as well as ur beaters, possibly let him back afer a year if he has learned on the understanding that even 1 hint of unsafe handling/shooting and he puts his gun in a slip there and then for the season and loses his money. Possibly after a year in the beating line he might realise the error of his ways. But u would have have to keep a very close eye/mentor on him if he came back after a year If he's your Dad then even more reason to remove him.If one warnings not enough, a thousand is never plenty, do it for his own sake, he'd be mortified if he shot someone.By the way any complaints about low shooting should be dealt with by the shoot captain - its not up to guns to criticise each other, one authority on a shooting day. While u are quite right that u need 1 person i charge on a shoot day, i think every person should speak up instantly they see something dangerous/dodgy. The shot captain may not always be in a postion to see (esp if a walk1 stand 1) Fair enough some poor gun handling where a quiet word later should be enough But the biggest thing for me is the person who took the shot may not realise u are there and may take another dangerous shot, and this time hurt someone. I think the person has to know at the exact time so they know wot shot was low? dangerous and i've told the boys anything remotely dangerous to stop drive there and then if i can't see until it is sorted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezi bez Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) I agree with you on that zeus. Scully id have to say something or even plant a seed in his mind and watch it grow. If that dident work then id walk unfortunatley. On a shoot last year 2 pals were shot not injured infact one of them was shot twice by a chap that should no better he is no longer on the shoot he was asked to bag his gun and leave e immidiatly . As much as it was the guns fault I also blame shoot captin as he had put him down hill with beaters coming down hill also . Totaly agree scotslad Edited July 17, 2014 by ezi bez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsdad Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 A big pheasant syndicate locally has one or two 'iffy' characters as regards safety, both wealthy farmers who have 'been at it fer years', which in theory means they should know better, but don't. The main 'character' wanders around with a closed gun. The beaters know that it is empty when they set off for the first drive, but after that, no one knows whether he has unloaded the gun after the drive, or not, and no one will dare challenge him as he buys all the birds! His land isn't much use for driven birds, but being extremely wealthy he buys the birds which are reared and released on another farm. The syndicate consists of his son in law, grandsons, friends and business associates, plus the landowners family and friends. It has been like this for years, and no one will say anything to him. I know a chap very similar on our shoot...he thinks he knows best keeping his gun closed, on more than one occasion he has stood with it pointing at me and also my dog, I asked him on 3 occasions to open it and he refused until the last time when I was so angry with him pointing it at my dog I threatened to give him a bloody nose which got the required result. I don't care who you are, safe gun handling applies to everyone and if you are offended by someone pointing out your errors then man up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 The accepted method is for the shoot captain to be called immediately an incident occurs and for him to interview all those who saw anything. If its serious, the drive should be stopped and the guilty gun warned about future conduct and, if necessary, being asked to leave the shoot. Some guns have their own peculiar ideas about what is safe and what isnt - any dangerous situation needs an external perspective. I have been on shoot where a gun took a potentially very dangerous shot (no one fortunately injured) and walked off the shoot without being asked to. By far the best thing he could have done even if it was momentary lapse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 This is the reason I wont ever join a syndicate again even if places where free.The last one I was in,i was standing on my peg and a low bird came straight out of the cover.The bird came past me at waist height to my left,the gun to my left followed the bird through gun mounted . Needless to say I never went back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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