loriusgarrulus Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 I have a largish bottle to fill our Daystate mk 4's. Not keen on lugging it around for when we go target shooting and have ran out of air one indoor range before now and prefer not paying £2 to fill the rifle when having the whole bottle refilled is only £3. Is it possible to use one of the smaller paintball air bottles to refill a PCP air rifle. As they are smaller would be a lot easier to cart about and just use the big bottle to refill at home. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111271746522?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Thinking of bottles like these, anyone tried this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 The criteria is material compatibility with the gas medium and the pressure rating. These are 3000PSI which is approximately only 200 bar. So I wouldn't cascade from higher pressure cylinder. Also these cylinders are for CO2 I think. So my advise is No don't. But there is nothing stopping you using a smaller cylinder so long as it is designed to correct pressure and for the gas medium. Hope that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 I have a largish bottle to fill our Daystate mk 4's. Not keen on lugging it around for when we go target shooting and have ran out of air one indoor range before now and prefer not paying £2 to fill the rifle when having the whole bottle refilled is only £3. Is it possible to use one of the smaller paintball air bottles to refill a PCP air rifle. As they are smaller would be a lot easier to cart about and just use the big bottle to refill at home. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111271746522?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Thinking of bottles like these, anyone tried this. You never said the pressure/volume of you large bottle.... 300 bar tanks give a good " head " of pressure and with the small volume of your gun's cylinder then your number of fill's will be good. Look at the availability of an 300 bar fill in your area as dive shops fall like flies in a cold winter, however 300 bar is a better pressure to decant from. As you idea from ebay I am afraid it wont work.... A 300 bar 5 ltr surface cyl has a 5 year test so it will be good for 5 years then you must divide the cost by 5 + the fills for your yearly running costs TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 however 300 bar is a better pressure to decant from. Which is of course true, just ensure the cylinder you are decanting into is also rated for 300 bar. Never cascade from a higher pressure rated cylinder into a lower pressure rated cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les*1066 Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 I use a 12 litre 300 bar cylinder for 'home' fills, and a 3 litre 300 bar cylinder for 'field' fills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon69 Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 You never said the pressure/volume of you large bottle.... 300 bar tanks give a good " head " of pressure and with the small volume of your gun's cylinder then your number of fill's will be good. Look at the availability of an 300 bar fill in your area as dive shops fall like flies in a cold winter, however 300 bar is a better pressure to decant from. As you idea from ebay I am afraid it wont work.... A 300 bar 5 ltr surface cyl has a 5 year test so it will be good for 5 years then you must divide the cost by 5 + the fills for your yearly running costs TEH you could recharge the small cylinder from a larger one but the volume of the small cylinder would mean you would only be able to give the gun a "low" fill as such. for example if you had a 10ltr cylinder filled to 200bar and wanted to fill(decant to) another 10ltr cylinder you would end up with 100bar in each cylinder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 you could recharge the small cylinder from a larger one but the volume of the small cylinder would mean you would only be able to give the gun a "low" fill as such. for example if you had a 10ltr cylinder filled to 200bar and wanted to fill(decant to) another 10ltr cylinder you would end up with 100bar in each cylinder! Could won't work mechanically as I am sure his particular air rifle will fire....however the performance will be below par.... My experience was from running a dive shop/cylinder testing and keeping the local air gunners very happy with nice cold fills, plenty of foc O rings with help and advice......... TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted July 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Could won't work mechanically as I am sure his particular air rifle will fire....however the performance will be below par.... My experience was from running a dive shop/cylinder testing and keeping the local air gunners very happy with nice cold fills, plenty of foc O rings with help and advice......... TEH Her rifle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derfley Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 I have a largish bottle to fill our Daystate mk 4's. Not keen on lugging it around for when we go target shooting and have ran out of air one indoor range before now and prefer not paying £2 to fill the rifle when having the whole bottle refilled is only £3. Is it possible to use one of the smaller paintball air bottles to refill a PCP air rifle. As they are smaller would be a lot easier to cart about and just use the big bottle to refill at home. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111271746522?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Thinking of bottles like these, anyone tried this. There are kits available for converting the 4&500cc buddy bottles used by BSA's, and theobens into small re-charge cylinders. But since these are rated a 232bar your not going to get many fills out of them. If weight is an issue why not look into a carbon fibre air cylinder, they are not cheap but will be lighter than the equivalent steel cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted July 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Will have a look at the carbon fibre as not got the muscles you blokes have and can't expect OH to carry everything. Not looking for many fills, just for topping up at the indoor range we go to. Up two flights of steep stairs. When paying for 2 hours to play and run out of air after 1.5 hrs its a bit annoying. Edited July 19, 2014 by loriusgarrulus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted July 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 http://www.bestfittings.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=587 Found one. I think this might do. will have a look around see if there are any other options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Loriusgarrulus Repeating myself and sorry, but please remember to ensure it is the same pressure rating as the main cylinder. Higher than the main cylinder is OK but never lower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted July 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) "Cylinder charges directly from your 232 / 300BAR DIN cylinder" Was in the description and our big cyclinder is 300bar. So should be fine Edited July 19, 2014 by loriusgarrulus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 "Cylinder charges directly from your 232 / 300BAR DIN cylinder" Was in the description and our big cyclinder is 300bar. So should be fine If the top up cylinder is rated at 250 and your main bottle is 300, then as birdsallpl has reminded you above, you could be on a sticky wicket. Your quoted advertising blurb is in error. Those are the facts and consequently form the only possible correct advice. Should you be certain that the main cylinder contains the same or less than the top up cylinder rating, then that is at your discretion. The test pressure for the top up cylinder is well in excess of the 300, but relying on that is not a good idea and to so advise is simply not on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted July 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Back to the drawing board then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike737 Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 You could look on *bay for used scuba BCDs. Many such as the Buddy Commando have a small air bottle, for emergency ascent or emergency air if your main bottle fails. Quite cheap and you could sell the jacket without the bottle afterwards. These are tested to the same pressure and fill from your main bottle. Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Back to the drawing board then. Not necessarily. Just because the main cylinder is rated at 300, it doesn't mean to say it has to be charged to that figure. If your rifles run at a lower pressure, then you might find that by charging to 250, the reduced number of fills that will give would still be acceptable. If there isn't one already, a contents gauge added to that bottle will ensure all is well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 You could look on *bay for used scuba BCDs. Many such as the Buddy Commando have a small air bottle, for emergency ascent or emergency air if your main bottle fails. Quite cheap and you could sell the jacket without the bottle afterwards. These are tested to the same pressure and fill from your main bottle. Mike. Even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Unless you have a pressure relief device built into the cascade system set at the MAWP of the receiving cylinder it should never be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted July 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 I do love acronyms. Alright then what's a MAWP Unless you have a pressure relief device built into the cascade system set at the MAWP of the receiving cylinder it should never be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Sorry, common acronym in the industry. It stands for 'Maximum Allowable Working Pressure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted July 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Knew something was niggling me. Been on the Daystate website. I can fill my rifle up to 230bar from a 300bar cyclinder using the pressure regulater on the cylinder. Why can't a small cylinder be filled from a bigger cylinder using the pressure regulater on the big cyclinder. http://www.daystate.com/mk4.htm Edited July 19, 2014 by loriusgarrulus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 I doubt if you have a regulator on your large cylinder it is usually just a valve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted July 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 It has a dial that reads bar and I switch the valve off when it gets to 230bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Yes that's just a valve and gauge. Out of interest do you have a gauge on your rifle cylinder? Also what test pressure is shown on your rifle cylinder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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