lurchers Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 Ive been fancying a gwp for a good while now but i want 1 from good working stuff.ive been given 2 names off a friend who had 1 a while ago until she died and he says rory major or trudvang kennels if you want a good 1.im not after a debate im just want your opinions on a good working line in the uk of where to go to for a pup.many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Rory Major (Bryantscroft) or Chris Grey (the kennels you mention). I shouldn't go elsewhere personally and certainly not from any home bred litter just because those kennels appear in the pedigree as there is some bad stuff about. Personally speaking another GWP pup wouldn't be welcome here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurchers Posted July 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Rory Major (Bryantscroft) or Chris Grey (the kennels you mention). I shouldn't go elsewhere personally and certainly not from any home bred litter just because those kennels appear in the pedigree as there is some bad stuff about. Personally speaking another GWP pup wouldn't be welcome here Why wouldnt it be welcome,bad experience or do you not rate the breed.as i want 1 from good stuff and my mate said them kennels nothing else would do for him to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Bad experience, if you want to know more pm me as I am done talking about it on open forum. Besides I think the versatile thing is way over rated too many contradictions in a dogs training to achieve the ultimate goal in that regards. If I was in the market for a pointer I should buy a proper pointer, a retriever a Lab etc, a flushing dog a Spaniel ESS or Cocker and a deer dog would always be a small one I might carry up a high seat etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Bad experience, if you want to know more pm me as I am done talking about it on open forum. Besides I think the versatile thing is way over rated too many contradictions in a dogs training to achieve the ultimate goal in that regards. If I was in the market for a pointer I should buy a proper pointer, a retriever a Lab etc, a flushing dog a Spaniel ESS or Cocker and a deer dog would always be a small one I might carry up a high seat etc. eh ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Some think they can do it all, they might do but not in a single lifetime and the result will always be harder to obtain than with a dog specifically bred for the task at hand. Does that help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 No Unable to help you further on that then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Thanks for the effort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 U don;t say wot ur wanting the dog for? Purely for deer? shooting over? trialling? hairy hard mouthed beaing line dog? fashion assecory? U won't go wrong with something along chris's/trudvang lines, quite 'birdy' dogs and usually very good natured, don't think rory is breding any at the moment or atleast he wasn't. Chris's tend to be smaller bodied and more alng the danish lines rather than DD/german lines which tend to be more suitable for the uk shooting and less harsh/sharp which the more german lines can be. Best to give a few reputable breeders a bell and speak to them, but all the trudvang dogs i have seen (got 1 myself)have a fantastic temperent My personal opinion is i would never recommend an hpr to anyone unless u want/need a dog to point, if not other breeds would be far more suitable. Esp if it is ur first gundog do not even think about an hpr. And as kent has said hpr's are severly over rated by some who own the breed and very much 'jack of al trades master of none' as far as i'm concerned and for almost all uk shooting/stalking situations a lab/springer would do the job better. I have seen a lot of hprs and some very very good ones but they only come into there own on open ground, even rough shooting with other dogs/people they can be a total nightmare, just not worth the hassle unless u have open 'pointing' ground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurchers Posted July 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 U don;t say wot ur wanting the dog for? Purely for deer? shooting over? trialling? hairy hard mouthed beaing line dog? fashion assecory? U won't go wrong with something along chris's/trudvang lines, quite 'birdy' dogs and usually very good natured, don't think rory is breding any at the moment or atleast he wasn't. Chris's tend to be smaller bodied and more alng the danish lines rather than DD/german lines which tend to be more suitable for the uk shooting and less harsh/sharp which the more german lines can be. Best to give a few reputable breeders a bell and speak to them, but all the trudvang dogs i have seen (got 1 myself)have a fantastic temperent My personal opinion is i would never recommend an hpr to anyone unless u want/need a dog to point, if not other breeds would be far more suitable. Esp if it is ur first gundog do not even think about an hpr. And as kent has said hpr's are severly over rated by some who own the breed and very much 'jack of al trades master of none' as far as i'm concerned and for almost all uk shooting/stalking situations a lab/springer would do the job better. I have seen a lot of hprs and some very very good ones but they only come into there own on open ground, even rough shooting with other dogs/people they can be a total nightmare, just not worth the hassle unless u have open 'pointing' ground Thanks for that mate,i wanted it as a all rounder type of thing but if thats the case needing pointing ground i dont have.ive always liked the look of them so now i will have a look at something else but not a lab,as i cant stand the breed.so i might just go for a little cocker now if that will do what i need it for.cheers mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Get urself along to an hpr training day/eve and actually see some in the flesh working/training (and don't rely on my opinion) many on here seem to think there the best thing since sliced bread, but obviously have differnet ideas to me. Or even a FT and see them working, but a big difference working a dog on a FT to a beating line. Speak to as many hpr/gwp folk as u can preferably see there dogs work to, don't want to put u off totally but just go in with ur eyes open, they are not the wonder dogs that many make them out to be My opinion is unless u want a dog to point no point in gettin 1, if u don't far better breeds out there On good open ground they are amazing dogs to shoot over/watch, but if ur on walk 1 stand 1, beatinfg picking up or peg dog, hpr's in general would not be my 1st, 2nd, or 3rd choice of a breed. I see ur from co durham u must have acces to some decent rough/pointing ground near there? Be worth calling andy cullen, loachin? gundogs he's up ur neck of the woods, somewhere above newcastle alnwick??, a very good trainer trains all sorts of hpr's as well as other breeds, be worth speaking to rory too even if he isn't breeding. Chris gray is also a very good trainer and knows dogs/gwp's inside out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Thanks for that mate,i wanted it as a all rounder type of thing but if thats the case needing pointing ground i dont have.ive always liked the look of them so now i will have a look at something else but not a lab,as i cant stand the breed.so i might just go for a little cocker now if that will do what i need it for.cheers mate. Your talking about a gundog breed that dominates the world, the most popular pet and the most popular gundog. Is that the very fact you don't like? The three bad semi aspect? Reason the house is popular is it works for so many families. My GWP was sired by Chris greys Magnus and out of a German import. One litter members survives to the best of my knowledge and it is solely an on the lead tracker. Magnus had a great reputation on temperament and was also used by Rory, I tell you now I doubt either of these guys would keep a less than spot on temperament animal. So you need a flushing dog that can also retrieve? Spaniel is a fine choice you wont do better. Still wont out do a Lab at heel or in the hide or perhaps on a way out their difficult retrieve and across water. Its imperative you get what you need for the work you have and don't expect a multi purpose do everything, (wash the dishes and clean the car type breed) because if they exist then they take longer to train well than they live for, though some breeders might tell you the sky is green if you have upwards of £500 in your pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurchers Posted July 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Get urself along to an hpr training day/eve and actually see some in the flesh working/training (and don't rely on my opinion) many on here seem to think there the best thing since sliced bread, but obviously have differnet ideas to me. Or even a FT and see them working, but a big difference working a dog on a FT to a beating line. Speak to as many hpr/gwp folk as u can preferably see there dogs work to, don't want to put u off totally but just go in with ur eyes open, they are not the wonder dogs that many make them out to be My opinion is unless u want a dog to point no point in gettin 1, if u don't far better breeds out there On good open ground they are amazing dogs to shoot over/watch, but if ur on walk 1 stand 1, beatinfg picking up or peg dog, hpr's in general would not be my 1st, 2nd, or 3rd choice of a breed. I see ur from co durham u must have acces to some decent rough/pointing ground near there? Be worth calling andy cullen, loachin? gundogs he's up ur neck of the woods, somewhere above newcastle alnwick??, a very good trainer trains all sorts of hpr's as well as other breeds, be worth speaking to rory too even if he isn't breeding. Chris gray is also a very good trainer and knows dogs/gwp's inside out No worries mate,co durham is a big place and alnwick is just over an hour drive for me.the land i have has good hedge rows and ditches.the moor land is about 50mins drive for me to but i dont have permission on any.but thanks for all the info i will be going for a cocker now as its only for pigeon shooting and a few pheasants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurchers Posted July 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Your talking about a gundog breed that dominates the world, the most popular pet and the most popular gundog. Is that the very fact you don't like? The three bad semi aspect? Reason the house is popular is it works for so many families. My GWP was sired by Chris greys Magnus and out of a German import. One litter members survives to the best of my knowledge and it is solely an on the lead tracker. Magnus had a great reputation on temperament and was also used by Rory, I tell you now I doubt either of these guys would keep a less than spot on temperament animal. So you need a flushing dog that can also retrieve? Spaniel is a fine choice you wont do better. Still wont out do a Lab at heel or in the hide or perhaps on a way out their difficult retrieve and across water. Its imperative you get what you need for the work you have and don't expect a multi purpose do everything, (wash the dishes and clean the car type breed) because if they exist then they take longer to train well than they live for, though some breeders might tell you the sky is green if you have upwards of £500 in your pocket. I wanted a gwp mate as i like the look of them not for a fashion statement,as im a big beliver in you pay for what you get and i was told about £800 from either kennel was about the going rate.i even like the wirehaired vizlas but the wife like gwps better but it would of been a pet and a working dog.but its like you say if i dont need a 1 for the work i do it will be no good for me,so ive gone for a cocker lol big difference but i dont mind them to.yous have been a very big help on this topic and yous must both know your gwps,but i wouldnt like to think ive rouined a good dog for a job to small for it.cheers for all the help and been a good read from yous both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I have a GWP and will be picking up another in a few weeks time. I have also shot and trained with most of the other HPR breeds found in the UK. I would agree with a lot of comments here that they are harder to train and take longer but if that's what you want then go for it. My dog has his faults but most of us do. I have mixed ground to shoot on including pasture, big arable fields, woods and plantations and I would never be able to cover the ground with a springer or cocker. My GWP gets out a long way and will hold the point for me to catch up. It would be pointless having a springer knocking birds up 100 yards away and never being able to shoot any. Yes I could change the way I shoot but I don't want to. I rough shoot on my own or with a few friends and want to be able to cover large areas. The only problem I have is when he goes on point in a wooded area or where there is a lot of cover.....and I can't find him! He's a big dog and will never be able to get into thick cover like a cocker but it doesn't stop him trying and I'm happy with that. I have shot with labs, cockers and springers and some have been fantastic dogs and some have been carp but that's probably more the fault of the handler. Don't be put off if it's what you really want but just understand that they might not be able to everything it says on the tin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurchers Posted July 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I have a GWP and will be picking up another in a few weeks time. I have also shot and trained with most of the other HPR breeds found in the UK. I would agree with a lot of comments here that they are harder to train and take longer but if that's what you want then go for it. My dog has his faults but most of us do. I have mixed ground to shoot on including pasture, big arable fields, woods and plantations and I would never be able to cover the ground with a springer or cocker. My GWP gets out a long way and will hold the point for me to catch up. It would be pointless having a springer knocking birds up 100 yards away and never being able to shoot any. Yes I could change the way I shoot but I don't want to. I rough shoot on my own or with a few friends and want to be able to cover large areas. The only problem I have is when he goes on point in a wooded area or where there is a lot of cover.....and I can't find him! He's a big dog and will never be able to get into thick cover like a cocker but it doesn't stop him trying and I'm happy with that. I have shot with labs, cockers and springers and some have been fantastic dogs and some have been carp but that's probably more the fault of the handler. Don't be put off if it's what you really want but just understand that they might not be able to everything it says on the tin. I understand that mate but i only have grasd fields and a couple of crop fields to shoot on.a lot of cockers or springers cant do everything either mate but from the posts on here it looks like a pointer is over qualified for what i need a dog to do.dont get me wrong ive been doing the flushing and shooting as i can get in were the dog can,but i thought i mays well have a dog doing it than myself or the kids(14-16yrs)old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I think u have probably made the right decision, i have no doubt u could train a hpr to do wot u want (pigeons, pheas) but not really wot they have been selctively bred for for 100's of years. As has been said on other similar threads round peg square hole For me hpr's and esp trailly trained rangey ones are a nuisence on a shoot day trying to work them in with other dogs, as they tend to range anywhere and u then get the problem of other dogs drawing out to steal the point. We had a couple on our shooot a few years ago that often mis pointed behind the line when walking up (ocassional found a bird other dogs had missed or no dogs) but a real pain for safety. An old fashioned proper working strain lab would be the natural choice for wot ur looking for, will enter cover no probs and beter for sitting in hide and i agree with kent labs are severly under rated as gun dogs, generally far more versatile than most hpr's. Good luck wi it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurchers Posted July 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I think u have probably made the right decision, i have no doubt u could train a hpr to do wot u want (pigeons, pheas) but not really wot they have been selctively bred for for 100's of years. As has been said on other similar threads round peg square hole For me hpr's and esp trailly trained rangey ones are a nuisence on a shoot day trying to work them in with other dogs, as they tend to range anywhere and u then get the problem of other dogs drawing out to steal the point. We had a couple on our shooot a few years ago that often mis pointed behind the line when walking up (ocassional found a bird other dogs had missed or no dogs) but a real pain for safety. An old fashioned proper working strain lab would be the natural choice for wot ur looking for, will enter cover no probs and beter for sitting in hide and i agree with kent labs are severly under rated as gun dogs, generally far more versatile than most hpr's. Good luck wi it Cheers mate.labs is the only breed i cant stand,thats why i couldnt have 1 but aot of my friends have said a lab for what i want.but not for me mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Each to there own, no good having a dog u don't enjoy before u even get it. Would be boring if we all had the same dogs/taste If u ever fancy a change and think about an hpr again usually the regional gsp clubs are fairly active with training things for all hpr's, if u do change atleast see a few in the flesh first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurchers Posted August 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Cheers no probs but they will probably have the same oppinion as yous have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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