deershooter Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Any one who buys a gun normally know how it works how did you miss this when you looked at it ? Deershooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 I repeat BECUASE IT DOSENT ! Replacing an extractor does not affect the guns Proof status . Again this is not about proof but about some cowboy gun dealer who should be put out of business If you do not believe me ring either Proof house and speak to the Proof master . If I am wrong then You have my most abject apologies and I will withdraw from this forum . Until then believe what you like . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Ok let's try this another way you can buy barrels from GMK to fit on a Beretta 68 series action these come without ejectors so by your ideas these are out of proof and GMK should receive their massive fines but no one is complaining why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Looking at the pictures of the gun I do not care if it is in proof or not in its present state it looks like a piece of scrap to me.as a by-note I purchased a new set of barrels for a 68 series beretta from gmk only four months ago and they came with ejector fitted.I was not offered the option of without but would have opted for them anyway.£1100.true story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Looking at the pictures of the gun I do not care if it is in proof or not in its present state it looks like a piece of scrap to me.as a by-note I purchased a new set of barrels for a 68 series beretta from gmk only four months ago and they came with ejector fitted.I was not offered the option of without but would have opted for them anyway.£1100.true story. £740 with out ejectors not much use with out them hence why most dealers don't even ask. Looking at the pictures of the gun I do not care if it is in proof or not in its present state it looks like a piece of scrap to me.as a by-note I purchased a new set of barrels for a 68 series beretta from gmk only four months ago and they came with ejector fitted.I was not offered the option of without but would have opted for them anyway.£1100.true story. £740 with out ejectors not much use with out them hence why most dealers don't even ask. I agree the gun is no doubt scrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 I could make a new extractor in 2 hours come on lads it's not a Purdy Deershooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 I could make a new extractor in 2 hours come on lads it's not a Purdy Deershooter Well there you go help the man out and pop it in the post on Monday for him.happy days I could make a new extractor in 2 hours come on lads it's not a Purdy Deershooter Well there you go help the man out and pop it in the post on Monday for him.happy days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 I could make a new extractor in 2 hours come on lads it's not a Purdy Deershooter 2 hours at what rate? It's an £85 gun personally looking at the rust on the action that was a little high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted September 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 The gun was missing a spring for the folding catch, the stock had been repaired at some stage and it wasn't in great condition, pretty loose - I was so taken by the cute factor that I was sold a pup! It's been RFD-RFD posted back to the original dealer but I'm still waiting for a refund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Well there you go help the man out and pop it in the post on Monday for him.happy days Well there you go help the man out and pop it in the post on Monday for him.happy days Mick you knowing so much about Gunsmithing this makes you look stupid ! Any one would know the part would need to be hand made to the gun which I don't have Deershooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Now you're moving the goalposts you never mentioned needing the gun (joke).but on your other remark I have never claimed any knowledge of gunsmithing. In fact I stated that any work I need done I pay a gunsmith to do for me. I do however only use qualified smiths.mostly gmk as they are beretta people.but being a staunch beretta user I really only ever have need of their services for changes of my choosing like the second set of barrels fitted to an old beretta that I have.beretta's rarely go wrong you understand.I am sure that you are as you say a very capable engineer and could very well make the part to fit the gun.atb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Does the "must be in proof" requirement apply to dealer to dealer sales? I can see manufacturers and distributors like GMK and BWM WTC being able to sell parts to dealers as they are parts not guns. This is a gun sold as a gun not a spare part. You could make any part up to and including a complete gun if so inclined (as many do) but unless proofed can't be sold as a gun to a consumer. I find it very strange that an incomplete ( compared to how it was at proof) can be sold as in proof. After all a barrel is a barrel not a gun. Isn't this how auctions sell out if proof guns as an action only which may come with some tubes but sold as an action only? The lack of response from selling dealer is worrying. spandit have you asked sending rfd for proof of delivery from courier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Proof law is not logical ,for example I can not offer for sale or export an out of proof or unproofed gun However if the gun has not had the rimseats cut then it is not able to be used so would in theory circumvent that law as it is in an unfinished state . A rifle that has been screw cut no matter what any one likes to think is considered to be out of proof as metal has been removed , cut the thread of and its fine even though metal has been removed .Those of us who have been in the gun trade all our working lives still occasionally fall foul of the law through miss interpretation or miss understandings .Membership of CIP has added another layer bureaucracy and constant change . There is also the "discretion" of the Proof Master and his Interpretation of points of proof law . Basically it is a mishmash and we have to accept it as it is ,not what we would like it to be or what we think it should be . As to the extractor question , proof is concerned with the integral structure of the component parts ,the barrel and the action as an extractor is not an integral part in so much it is removable/changeable .If you were to take the ribs of a gun and relay or change them, would it alter the guns poof status ? What about lengthening chamber cones ? Welding a hook for re-jointing ? Fitting a new bottom bolt? A striker disc ? A simple answer would be that all used guns offered for sale should have to be re-proofed or submitted for a proof inspection and certification before resale .But would you like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted September 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 The lack of response from selling dealer is worrying. spandit have you asked sending rfd for proof of delivery from courier? I haven't yet. Nothing heard from the selling dealer. I'll try contacting him today otherwise I'll start ramping up the pressure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted September 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Update: After my e-mail this morning he has replied saying he wasn't in breach of the sale of goods act (to which I retorted that the gun wasn't fit for purpose). He said the gun was safe and in proof (I know the latter has been the cause of some debate in this thread but the former I think is undeniably not true) and he thought I would be bringing it back in person so he's refusing to refund the full cost of the RFD transfer. I've told him this isn't acceptable as I could quite easily rip up £22.50 in my own time without having to drive to and from various RFDs (I worded it differently) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Hmm have a look at distance selling regs (I think they apply as there is no way you could inspect the goods prior to purchase) not the changed your mind part but the faulty/merchantable side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted September 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 He's now saying that if he knew I wasn't going to bring it back in person, he'd arrange collection by TNT - I didn't realise this was an option. I've told him that for his arguing over £20, he's lost any future business from me, and I won't be singing his praises on here and other forums. There are people on here who know exactly who he is but I have been asked by a moderator not to "name and shame" and I will of course respect that. A valuable lesson learnt, I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 All of the aforegoing leads me to wonder how others have experienced the services of this trader I believe that it would not be an inappropriate question to be asked as a future topic, being unassociated with this one. :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted September 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Go ahead and ask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Happy to oblige but I have no idea who the trader is and therefore also have no knowledge if I have used them in the past, I live Kent/Greater London border don’t get out much and only use Forsey Guns in Welling! Baffled by the link by the way, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 As this story has drawn to a conclusion, the thread can now be closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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