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Mentoring Condition


stumpy69
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you'd best move down under then kent, I worked out there for a few years, when I changed jobs I asked my hopefully new employer if he wanted me to get me qualifications sent over, his reply was 'nah, if I think your crip after a week then I will pay ya and you can bogger off back ta blighty'. Not sure if it would work for brain surgeons though. When in Rome though, we are bound up by red tape but ta be honest its nothing new so we have to expect and be prepared.

You gotta love the Aussie, no wonder their economy is booming.

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Is it an option to go on a proper firearms training course instead of having a mentoring condition? Get a certificate by the course supervisor that says you have completed the training and are a safe gun.

Yes, you can go and take your DSC 1 course, this will then remove mentoring off the requirement.

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If I was given a mentoring condition, I wouldn't have continued with the sport, as nobody I know has a centerfire rifle.

 

I believe in the German system, where you must pass a written, oral, practical and shooting exam in order to get your licence. It's difficult, with a high failure rate, but that way, all hunters are respected, and treated like they know what they're doing, rather than just nutters with guns, which I get the impression of some here. They don't have to bother with mentoring conditions, or open and closed tickets, as all shooters are exceptionally well-trained, and can be trusted to use any firearm safely.

 

On the other hand, qualifications like the German system are quite elitist, and restrict shooting to those who can afford it, and are capable of passing the exam. My friend for example, shooting is his life. He's not the brightest, the most natural countryman, or the best shot, so he wouldn't pass the German exam. To me, that seems a bit harsh, but to the Germans, he wouldn't be capable of using firearms, so it's a controversial issue.

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You really think the public see's past GUNS to safety. I think thats nieve. I also think that everyone was coached by Dad or Grandad (fishing and shooting) in the times before paper and "it wasnt my fault". My Dad taught me to love shooting. Safety I managed by myself, CF's I also managed by myself. What is needed and mostly applies is people who shoot having a conscience, integrity and care for their fellow man - even if that fellow man (or woman) couldn't give a toss about shooting and just simply hates guns.

You have to have some forms of recognised training for most things in life now so why not shooting.a lot on here seem to take it as an insult to suggest they may actually learn something to their good.an example of this is on another thread currently on here entitled range backstop where the op makes a statement that he probably don't need one.some seem to forget that the weapon they are using is dangerous for several miles a lot further than you can see in most cases.anything that improves the safety of any activity is a good thing.after all the person who will suffer the most will not be the one pulling the trigger.atb

Edited by bostonmick
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Can someone please also answer that if someone has a mentoring condition for a .308 and deer, does that mean they wouldn't be allowed to visit a range with the .308 to do some load development without the mentor being present? Sorry if it's a silly question.

 

Thanks

I have no idea, but who's to know? This is why the entire mentoring thing is farcical. Is mentoring stipulated as a 'condition' on your certificate? If so does it specify a certain number of trips out with your mentor and over what period? How will your FEO even know how often you've been out with your mentor over any given period of time? Your mentor could simply inform your FEO he's been out with you 25 times in the last month; who will know any different? It isn't to ensure your competence, it's to cover your licensing dept's ****, but as its open to abuse, it doesn't even do that.

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I have no idea, but who's to know? This is why the entire mentoring thing is farcical. Is mentoring stipulated as a 'condition' on your certificate? If so does it specify a certain number of trips out with your mentor and over what period? How will your FEO even know how often you've been out with your mentor over any given period of time? Your mentor could simply inform your FEO he's been out with you 25 times in the last month; who will know any different? It isn't to ensure your competence, it's to cover your licensing dept's ****, but as its open to abuse, it doesn't even do that.

I agree.

I had a mentoring/experienced stalker condition for a .308 for deer and found a 'mentor/experienced stalker' who also did paid stalking, he has his own range at Calton Moor near Leek, So, four trips out with him and condition met.

He was rather critical of mentoring and spurious conditions for stalking, asking, how do you define 'experienced' or 'stalker' in a satisfactory way that meets a test of public safety.

It all smacks of grasping at straws. There is a role for shooting organisations to help here at limited cost and run a familiarisation course for centrefire with a module for deer/other quarry.

A DSC is, to me, a costly and unreasonable requirement, not available to all but there could be a simpler way which provides 'experience', quarry specific 'training' and to all who need/want it via marginal increases in membership fees. It also makes promotional good sense.

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North Wales police are, when they finally get round to issuing FACs to new applicants, not initially granting for centrefire for hunting purposes unless or until the holder has some experience. I was informed that such experience could take the form of being out with an experienced shot a few times OR attending a course of some sort - DSC was not mentioned, though that might have been because it's a 223. A third alternative, I was told, would be for a 'considerable period' of time getting rimfire experience (initial grant was 22LR for target and pest control, 223 for target only).

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North Wales police are, when they finally get round to issuing FACs to new applicants, not initially granting for centrefire for hunting purposes unless or until the holder has some experience. I was informed that such experience could take the form of being out with an experienced shot a few times OR attending a course of some sort - DSC was not mentioned, though that might have been because it's a 223. A third alternative, I was told, would be for a 'considerable period' of time getting rimfire experience (initial grant was 22LR for target and pest control, 223 for target only).

Dont know if you have a friend to help Robbie but Cheshire is close enough, happy to come to you and help you gain 'some experience' of a .223 if you need it.

Cheers

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Most clay pigeon clubs (the decent ones) before you become a member you have to attend a few weeks so they can watch you to see that you have some common sense l.

I have obviously never been to a decent one then...... From SW2000 to southern counties and bisley I have never been told I have to attend before I can join or shoot. Never even been asked for my SGC

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I have obviously never been to a decent one then...... From SW2000 to southern counties and bisley I have never been told I have to attend before I can join or shoot. Never even been asked for my SGC

 

 

Me neither I'm afraid; not once.

 

 

you two should get a room. :lol: if you ever find your way to this part of the world and wish to shoot at some of our local clubs you will be taken round to ensure safety.you never know you could be lucky and get me. :good:

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You have to have some forms of recognised training for most things in life now so why not shooting.a lot on here seem to take it as an insult to suggest they may actually learn something to their good.an example of this is on another thread currently on here entitled range backstop where the op makes a statement that he probably don't need one.some seem to forget that the weapon they are using is dangerous for several miles a lot further than you can see in most cases.anything that improves the safety of any activity is a good thing.after all the person who will suffer the most will not be the one pulling the trigger.atb

To be fair to the poster of this statement you have taken it a bit out of context, and he explains later that he could just use natural dips instead of making a backstop.

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To be fair to the poster of this statement you have taken it a bit out of context, and he explains later that he could just use natural dips instead of making a backstop.

 

yes I did read that part as well however as was pointed out as well was the natural slope going to be suitable.what is the make up of the ground and chances of ricochet.but at least if he uses the natural dips it is not adjacent to any of my land so I wont be in the firing line of any mishaps.if he has a fac he should know what is an acceptable backstop not asking people on here to comment on ground they do not know.a good mentor might have explained these sort of things along the way.atb

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Yes, you can go and take your DSC 1 course, this will then remove mentoring off the requirement.

Yet the shooting is all done under range orders and the safety test is brief walk around with imaginary yet obviously set up scenarios to say the least ( I remember saying on walking off after mine " I should have shot that deer next to the locked up range store if it wasn't a test and my instructed added "yep me too" ). If I mentor a guy I do so before application and they get to see real shot assessment in the field for real, out of all these I think this is best BUT the question remains "who mentored me" . I have a growing feeling if we continue down this path we will end up with compulsory training and rather than one guy helping another for free without the associated prejudice involved as a client / provider association makes it a money spinner.

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Regarding courses and instructive qualifications in any theatre of endeavour two quotes come to mind Oscar Wilde’s

Education is an admirable thing, but it is well to remember from time to time that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught”

And this one,
“Dear Charles Atlas I have completed your course now please send me the muscles”.

Which always serves to remind me that an individual’s best credentials are those that he demonstrates and are witnessed by his peers over a period of time. However in this modern H&S aware world there has to be a starting point for a beginner who will be shooting outside of the relative safety and supervisory confinements of the rifle range. The problem is as with any logically acceptable initiative in regard to the shooting sports it will just be the ‘Thin End of the Wedge’ and therefore used as a stick to beat us with as is demonstrated by the tread topic of the OP!

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