silver pigeon 3 Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 Been toying with the idea of after market chokes for steel for a while, keep on deciding on one to purchase and then changing my mind! Had a bit of time today so decided to pattern test my SX3 with the factory chokes. I have done it before but not very scientifically and didn't make a note of the results. I shot 5 shots at 30 yds with Gamebore mammoth steel 36g 3's with 1/4 choke then repeated with 1/2, these cartridges have a pellet count of 195. 1/4 choke gave me an average of 129 pellets in the 30" circle, so 66%, pattern was ok but was a bit gappy in places so didn't bother pushing this combination to 40 yds. 1/2 choke gave me an average of 183 pellets in the 30" circle, so 93%, pattern was very good throughout the circle with no gaps. using the same combination at 40 yards it gave me an average of 134 pellet strikes, so 68%. Pattern was generally good and no big gaps. Moving on to the mammoth steel 42g bb's, these have a pellet count of 132. I tried the 1/2 choke @ 40yds which gave me an average pellet strike of 91, so 68%. Again the pattern within the 30" circle was good with an even spread.Thinking that if i tightened the choke i would increase the average pellet strike i shot the 4 shots @ 40 yds but this time with 3/4 choke. Really surprised to find the pellet strike to drop to 83 so 63%, the pattern was a lot more spread out with some tightly concentrated groups and areas with no strikes at all. 50 yards with the bb's and 1/2 choke returned a strike count of 68, so 51% and a usable pattern, a few gaps but I would rarely take a shot at this distance. What did surprise me was the consistency of the cartridges with only a few % variation, so that has increased my confidence! So my question is to all the seasoned users of steel who have switched to the after market chokes and carried out pattern testing is would you expect to see an improvement on some/all of the above and would you advise the switch. I know that I have probably answered my own questions but would just like the input and ideas of a few other clued up fowlers. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 If I were to only shoot at birds less than 40 yards I wouldn't bother with any aftermarket chokes. I think these chokes come into their own when shooting at 'fowl that are 50 yards and over. For me, a 50% pattern is not really good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon 3 Posted August 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 If I were to only shoot at birds less than 40 yards I wouldn't bother with any aftermarket chokes. I think these chokes come into their own when shooting at 'fowl that are 50 yards and over. For me, a 50% pattern is not really good enough. That's the sort of info I am after, looking at the kicks high flyer the modified states as "Modified:Recommended for decoying shots out to 40 yards. Works well with large steel goose loads as well. " What sort of percentage pattern are you getting at 50 yds+ and with what choke? The only reason i don't take the longer shots is that i know the cartridge/choke combination is not up to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 That's the sort of info I am after, looking at the kicks high flyer the modified states as "Modified:Recommended for decoying shots out to 40 yards. Works well with large steel goose loads as well. " What sort of percentage pattern are you getting at 50 yds+ and with what choke? The only reason i don't take the longer shots is that i know the cartridge/choke combination is not up to it. I achieve generally over 70% patterns at 50 yards with 3s through my Terror. The same is true of the 10g Terror with BB shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 I can vouch for the Kicks High flyer in modified, a fantastic choke in the SX3 with very good patterns to sixty yards with bb and 1 shot is good too. But even smaller steel still gave better patterns than factory by quite a margin. I never take the choke out except for cleaning. It's brill on clays and dusts them to good distance. When I change to a A300 il be checking the factory chokes before buying another kicks as beretta have apparently altered the hp choke for steel shot, we will see. Figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 I purchased a Briley extended light full , it patterned very well at 50 yards with mamouth 42 gram BBs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 Mmm, I have a little chuckle at some claims by manufacturers and shooters who have never actually tested their super chokes but yes I do use a Kicks modified in my SX3- It will out pattern the energy criteria required at longer ranges! I know this from extensive patterning and high hit rates yet high wounding rates on the marsh (serious lack of penetration) Ok so non of us carry a rangefinder on the marsh so except that one guys 50 yards is anothers 40. I use improved / 1/4 in factory for all my close in stuff and a Kicks modified for tide flighting and 12 ga geese. The kicks I often fancy getting in a 1/4 for easier in the field swaps but other than that I aint about to go crazy on collecting chokes. Because of my findings on penetration I am not going to go to any after market full choke etc. Much better to keep it to my idea of 40 yards total max, allowing the fact that some of those will be closer to 35 or 45 without me knowing it, 50 yds is fine to test at though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon 3 Posted August 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Cheers for all the input, last season i used the 1/2 most of the time but did swop to 1/4 over splashes for the teal & wigeon. I am thinking of ordering the kicks modified and then re pattern testing to see how the results differ. As you have said Kent it is not solely about the pattern when the distance is stretched, 2 seasons ago I changed the way I shot when wildfowling and really tried to only shoot at birds within 40 yards as it seemed like i was missing more than i was hitting. This has served me well and I am getting a decent return for cartridges shot (last season just under 2/1), where I do struggle a little is on the geese so maybe a kicks may make the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Can someone recommend where to order these chokes from? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Cheers for all the input, last season i used the 1/2 most of the time but did swop to 1/4 over splashes for the teal & wigeon. I am thinking of ordering the kicks modified and then re pattern testing to see how the results differ. As you have said Kent it is not solely about the pattern when the distance is stretched, 2 seasons ago I changed the way I shot when wildfowling and really tried to only shoot at birds within 40 yards as it seemed like i was missing more than i was hitting. This has served me well and I am getting a decent return for cartridges shot (last season just under 2/1), where I do struggle a little is on the geese so maybe a kicks may make the difference. Like I say none of us carry rangefinders but I think 40 is tops! What I do tend to do is pace out the decoys 25 -30 tops to the last, allowing for triangulation everything should be under 40. Most duck over the spread are shot at 25 yards and killed well. Its hard to get them all that close on daylight tide flights on open marsh though Geese its all about looking "big" The kicks modified has really impressed upon me it has more ability than the shot has when it arrives for sure, you might get a lucky pellet in a real sweet spot but you wont penetrate through the meaty bits. Anyhow its sport and the fun comes from the difficulty in getting them in range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon 3 Posted August 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Anyhow its sport and the fun comes from the difficulty in getting them in range Very true, wouldn't be as much fun if it was easy!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIDES EDGE Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 The way I understand it its the shot string that they change which wont show on a pattern plate,I belive they shorten the string so more pellets hit the moving target there fore giving better kills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 The way I understand it its the shot string that they change which wont show on a pattern plate,I belive they shorten the string so more pellets hit the moving target there fore giving better kills Yet steel has shorter shot strings anyhow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon 3 Posted August 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 The way I understand it its the shot string that they change which wont show on a pattern plate,I belive they shorten the string so more pellets hit the moving target there fore giving better kills I understand that but surely the pattern still needs to be within the 30" circle at the given distance regardless of the length of the shot string? Otherwise there will be gaps! Might be wrong though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert 888 Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 (edited) I like Kent use the kicks 1/2 in my sx3 and its great for tide but too tight in the dark over splashes,works well with gambore super steel number 4 32g on geese and duck at acceptable ranges. Hunissimo in France sell them but last time I tried to order the website was poor. Kent and myself got them from America, off a very kind pw member. I have pattern tested the kicks and it suits me and my form of shooting. Edited August 27, 2014 by Albert 888 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIDES EDGE Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 I understand that but surely the pattern still needs to be within the 30" circle at the given distance regardless of the length of the shot string? Otherwise there will be gaps! Might be wrong though. The problem is that some of the pellets that are in the 30" circle will arrive after a speeding target has gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 The problem is that some of the pellets that are in the 30" circle will arrive after a speeding target has gone As it does with lead shot only a bit worse with less pellets. However if you calculate time of flight front to back of any shot string and the speed of travel of a 90 degree straight crossing bird it actually matters little to nothing and is as likely to be a slight advantage as a disadvantage. One can overthink shot string I feel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon 3 Posted August 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 The problem is that some of the pellets that are in the 30" circle will arrive after a speeding target has gone Yeah I accept that but surely (hopefully!) If I do go down the aftermarket choke route I should see more pellets inside the circle at greater ranges, irrespective of at what point they arrive. Listening to the advice on here and doing a bit of research I will order a kicks choke and pattern test to see the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIDES EDGE Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Yes you should get more pellets in the circle and as i understand it most of them at the same time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon 3 Posted August 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Yes you should get more pellets in the circle and as i understand it most of them at the same time Cheers for that, Kicks high flyer in modified ordered. All being as i hope i can use it for geese and the marshes where the shots at duck are a little longer. Will pattern it whrn it arrives and see whats what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Cheers for that, Kicks high flyer in modified ordered. All being as i hope i can use it for geese and the marshes where the shots at duck are a little longer. Will pattern it whrn it arrives and see whats what. You wont be disappointed (just a note keep checking it remains tight as then tend to gradually loosen) Both me an Albert 888 use them in sx3 Winchesters and I know other fowlers who favour them. I am actually about to do some further testing of some different shells myself today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 And here are the results with SX3 and a Kicks in modified All 24" circle not 30" 42 grm Gamebore no1 3 1/2" super magnum ( punchy load not conductive to second and third shots) 35 yards 93 and 94 strikes 40 yards 69 and 82 strikes ( I consider this max) 28 gram no4 ( nice light fast duck load with little recoil ) 35 yards 81 strikes and 77 strikes ( I consider this max for the load) 30 yards 114 and 108 strikes Will try and do this again with factory improved and perhaps factory modified soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon 3 Posted August 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Sounds good, any idea of the pellet count in either of the cartridges? Would be interesting to see how it compares to the factory chokes. My kicks choke should be here next week so will pattern it asap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Sounds good, any idea of the pellet count in either of the cartridges? Would be interesting to see how it compares to the factory chokes. My kicks choke should be here next week so will pattern it asap. To be fair I mainly just look at what the spread looks like (even without big gaps and clumping) and at which point the pattern starts to fail even 69 strikes (the lowest count above at 40 yrds) with number 1 shot in a 2 ft circle will kill . Easy enough to work out via weight to pellet counts charts mind if you have a mind to. But see the difference another 5 yards makes that's good to know in the field and I needed a reminder of the limits coz these are not my normal favourite shells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanm Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 With a briley I/m (3/4) in my versa max I get 78% at 50yrds with 34gr 3" home loads normally using 4.3mm . The load has 100 pellets in it and hits very hard , although the versa max is. 3 1/2" gun I usually only use 3" as I've found they pattern a lot better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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