Kes Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 http://www.peacockauction.co.uk/specialist/sporting-guns/bedford Just been looking at the auction taking place on the 11 th September in Bedford. Some interesting guns old, antique and modern, rilfes and shotguns and old and new air rifles. 10 and 8 bore cartridges, edged weapons etc etc. Its about the most interesting I have seen recently because of the range and estimated price - bundles of 5 rifle slips e.g. for £10 -20, some lovely 16 bores and hammer guns. There is a ruger in .308 that might need a viewing ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Have done this auction twice before.not impressed with the lots unless your paying very near top price the cheap lots are mostly just a collection of scrap.IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdsallpl Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Have done this auction twice before.not impressed with the lots unless your paying very near top price the cheap lots are mostly just a collection of scrap.IMHO. But I guess that's what auctions are about. The more an item is desirable the more people will bid for it, hence you have to pay top dollar if you really want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 I've just has a quick browse through the catalogue. There's some nice stuff some with very low estimates. Lot 727 .17 (HMR) Anschutz Model 1517, bolt action, 6 shot magazine, right hand sculptured stock, threaded for moderator (PH moderator available), no.3030502, in hard plastic case Est £80 - £100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 You can pick up some good deals at gun auctions. I got a new new CZ 550 .243 with an ok scope wouldn't think it had 10 shots through it if any, not a mark on it not even on the mag or bolt £225 and a Benelli Raffiello in good nick with 2 barrels for £250 both from Holts. I went up to look at a couple of other 243s and i was also looking for a 410 the 2 .243s were ****! and the 410 i liked whent fo too much. I would tell any one to go and have a look if they intend to buy as there is a lot of rubbish and the holts auction in london is a good day out looking at some lovely guns that you can't afored but they also have the sealed bid stuf there to view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshootist Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 I've just has a quick browse through the catalogue. There's some nice stuff some with very low estimates. Lot 727 .17 (HMR) Anschutz Model 1517, bolt action, 6 shot magazine, right hand sculptured stock, threaded for moderator (PH moderator available), no.3030502, in hard plastic case Est £80 - £100 An amazing price for a private individual with a slot waiting! The auctions have low estimates to generate interest. The large well attended auctions now sell guns at prices you would expect to pay at a dealer. When adding commision and VAT on the commission they can actually look very expensive. I think quieter auctions are where people can find the best prices and still have the chance of a hidden jem. I found a nice Jeffrey 16b BLNE last year at maybe half what it would have cost me in a shop. Zero comeback of course but its big boys rules at the auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshootist Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Oh man, I've just scrolled though the catalogue and seen that Westley Richards BLE, it looks great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecash Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 auctions are more and more of a rip off these days buyers premiums increasing, sellers premiums increasing, lotting fees, internet bidding fees, fees for a bidding number - sellers get the rawest deal in my view, buyers dont fare much better either. At one time there was a sellers fee of 10% and that was it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 auctions are more and more of a rip off these days buyers premiums increasing, sellers premiums increasing, lotting fees, internet bidding fees, fees for a bidding number - sellers get the rawest deal in my view, buyers dont fare much better either. At one time there was a sellers fee of 10% and that was it. Nobody has to buy - simply inspect, bid on line after assessing all the costs or not. If its so much scrap as 'the mick' says then just avoid - worth a look I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert 888 Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Thanks for the heads up. Oh dear. Say I registered and bid on line for a rifle-fac and won it for £200,how much would cost in the end to pick it up from local my rfd after all the process of vat, buyers fees, packing and the two rfd fees. I have spied two I would like. Dependant on overall cost,I know about the risks of buying a lemon but you can't beat the heart wrenching feeling of bidding then the afterthought of what I done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 auctions are more and more of a rip off these days buyers premiums increasing, sellers premiums increasing, lotting fees, internet bidding fees, fees for a bidding number - sellers get the rawest deal in my view, buyers dont fare much better either. At one time there was a sellers fee of 10% and that was it. The costs are shown before the start of the sale, just tack that in to account before bidding and its all good. Holts have got a side by side I'm interested in in there sealed bit auction, its nothing special just i already have one exactly the same in the cabinet and sort of fancied making a pair . they go from 250 to around 450 but I'm only willing to pay 120, 130 at a push so with buyers premium vat and rfd charges I'll stick a bid in of 40 quid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Thanks for the heads up. Oh dear. Say I registered and bid on line for a rifle-fac and won it for £200,how much would cost in the end to pick it up from local my rfd after all the process of vat, buyers fees, packing and the two rfd fees. I have spied two I would like. Dependant on overall cost,I know about the risks of buying a lemon but you can't beat the heart wrenching feeling of bidding then the afterthought of what I done. If you bid online the buyers premium is 18% + vat and if you pay by credit card they charge you another 3% plus rfd charges, don't know what they charge but holts charge £40 (i think ) and that covers up to 4 guns. so your £200 bid + 18% £36 plus vat at 20% £7.20 = £243.2 plus RFD say £40 = £283.2 plus 3% if paying by credit card grand total of £ 291.70 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 The more and more I deal with auctions the more I realise you need to go in person. I see loads of peoples "bargains" look far from them when they see the piece close up. Lots will photograph from an items good side, not mention pieces are missing and just rely on internet bidders to buy. These guide prices are fiction and as said intended to get interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesP Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) I noticed the Westley Richards, and naturally I was attracted. I know I'm an old cynic, and the barmaid at my local reckons I'm 'picky', but I always wonder about something that looks that good. More than once I have mooched round auctions and found myself drawn to a gun. There it is, all colour hardening present, stock unmarked, blueing perfect, and I have thought 'Gosh! That could just have my name on it!' But closer examination has revealed that it's not quite all it seemed. Any plain action - such as that found on many of Messrs Westley Richards boxlocks (and droplocks) is a candidate for refinishing. When the old surface is polished off there's no engraving to destroy or soften, and as such renewed colour hardening is a distinct possibility. This can look attractive, if a little garish, but I would rather see the gun with a patina commensurate with its age. Colour hardening involves lots of heat, and warping can occur. There's also the risk that if it's not done entirely correctly you can end up with a degree of surface hardness that's inappropriate for the material. Rare, it's true, but a risk. And a prospective purchaser doesn't know it's been done, nor who did it. That Westley Richards in the catalogue looks good (or at least it does on the PDF version I have been looking at). But does a sporting gun that has had to be submitted for re-proof and that has had a stock extension really have so little wear that the original colour hardening is all still there? And if it really is an almost unused gun why would any vendor bung it in an auction? Refinishing guns for auctions is a growing phenomenon. Engraving is "refreshed", names are machine chiselled out and gold hammered in, and I for one think it's a shame. The best auction for internet browsing is, without a doubt, Holt's. The illustrations of the better lots are "zoomable" and they publish the all important bore and wall thickness measurement that can speak volumes. They also tell you when a gun is restocked or re-coloured. Edited September 1, 2014 by CharlesP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 Oh man, I've just scrolled though the catalogue and seen that Westley Richards BLE, it looks great! Just looked at that, its fantastic! Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AULD YIN Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 .22 SMLE something i always wanted . johnnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Just do your maths first I saw not so long ago a Photon night sight make £400 at auction they then added 20% vat (it was new) and 30% commission grand total £600 a true bargain for a £399 sight delivered!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshootist Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 I noticed the Westley Richards, and naturally I was attracted. I know I'm an old cynic, and the barmaid at my local reckons I'm 'picky', but I always wonder about something that looks that good. More than once I have mooched round auctions and found myself drawn to a gun. There it is, all colour hardening present, stock unmarked, blueing perfect, and I have thought 'Gosh! That could just have my name on it!' But closer examination has revealed that it's not quite all it seemed. Any plain action - such as that found on many of Messrs Westley Richards boxlocks (and droplocks) is a candidate for refinishing. When the old surface is polished off there's no engraving to destroy or soften, and as such renewed colour hardening is a distinct possibility. This can look attractive, if a little garish, but I would rather see the gun with a patina commensurate with its age. Colour hardening involves lots of heat, and warping can occur. There's also the risk that if it's not done entirely correctly you can end up with a degree of surface hardness that's inappropriate for the material. Rare, it's true, but a risk. And a prospective purchaser doesn't know it's been done, nor who did it. That Westley Richards in the catalogue looks good (or at least it does on the PDF version I have been looking at). But does a sporting gun that has had to be submitted for re-proof and that has had a stock extension really have so little wear that the original colour hardening is all still there? And if it really is an almost unused gun why would any vendor bung it in an auction? Refinishing guns for auctions is a growing phenomenon. Engraving is "refreshed", names are machine chiselled out and gold hammered in, and I for one think it's a shame. The best auction for internet browsing is, without a doubt, Holt's. The illustrations of the better lots are "zoomable" and they publish the all important bore and wall thickness measurement that can speak volumes. They also tell you when a gun is restocked or re-coloured. Yes some things are just too good to be true. I remember a .577 Snider Howdah pistol at Holts some years ago that looked like it had just been delivered from the factory. It still made a high price though! On second look of this gun I would agree. If its been used anough to have needed a reproof then it must have been re-colour hardened. When I asked Mr. Carey about re-colouring one of my guns he just shook his head! Okay - what about lot 954. A 29" Grant BLE? Its probably "honest". Some nice looking hammer gunds too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 I was tempted by the AYA MD6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesP Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 29" barrels. I wonder why they needed shortening? Bore measurements and, most of all, wall thicknesses may be interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshootist Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 29" barrels. I wonder why they needed shortening? Bore measurements and, most of all, wall thicknesses may be interesting... There's no certainty that they have been. They are stated as being full & full and its likely a 30" gun wouldn't remain full and full if shortened to 29". That was my first thought anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshootist Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Is anyone going to this tomorrow? I can't get away unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddoakley Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Im gonna make the trip for a scout around. Injured knee so work is out of the question hence finding a day to have a look. I will make some notes on what the guns that have been mentioned here are actually like and also what prices they bring. Edd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I met a good friend and RFD there a few years ago after not seeing him for 4 years he said "what are you doing here ?" I told him I was looking for a good hammer gun . His reply was "they are only here because we cannot sell them in the shop "! Deershooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted September 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I met a good friend and RFD there a few years ago after not seeing him for 4 years he said "what are you doing here ?" I told him I was looking for a good hammer gun . His reply was "they are only here because we cannot sell them in the shop "! Deershooter He might also have meant there were more people at an auction who are willing to buy, albeit a more discerning crowd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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