BASCing or not in reflected glory ?

[neil82]

not really sure whats going on here but this is my take on BASC, yes, membership may be up and increasing, that is most probably down to the fact that you give liability insurance with membership, that's the only reason I and my partner are members, as for being the voice on shooting, I don`t think so, what exactly are you doing to ensure that currant legislation is applied without extra conditions emposed by the ACPO, nothing springs to mind, you keep asking for info when people have extra conditions applied to applications and renewals but what exactly are you doing about it, keeping things on a low key if you are intervening on this is doing yourself and shooting in general no favours, you need to publicise all actions so all shooting groups can take a stand, as long as we are divided into separate groups we are stuffed in the long term

[ColinF]

I'm going to join Scully at NGO and see if they can improve my deflated estimation of what a representative organisation could and should be doing for shooters, individually and collectively.

 

 

I dont think BASC is listening, greylags and the General Licence for example. Who supports native geese, any going on the GL, when there are other ways tried and tested?

 

 

 

NGO also supported greylag going on to the general licence....

 

Edited August 29, 2014 by ColinF

[Kes]

 

I'm going to join Scully at NGO and see if they can improve my deflated estimation of what a representative organisation could and should be doing for shooters, individually and collectively.

 

 

I dont think BASC is listening, greylags and the General Licence for example. Who supports native geese, any going on the GL, when there are other ways tried and tested?

 

 

 

NGO also supported greylag going on to the general licence....

 

 

I have no idea what NGO members said to their organisation but I remember well BASC's position, because I was a member. I would criticise NGO equally had I been a member and entitled to, as my representative organisation.

[Kes]

I'm a strong supporter of BASC but accept that the organisation isn't perfect; I've yet to learn of any shooters representative that is perfect.

 

Members vote with their wallets. If the organisation doesn't dance to your tune or play to your script it's time to go, and Kes's time has come.

I've tired of reading his diatribe over many months if not years. I look forward to his words of wisdom being directed towards his new choice of representative body on this forum, lets see how they perform if indeed they even bother to respond.

 

I do my best to support BASC, I recruit new members almost every working day, to satisfy the cynics I don't enter the incentive schemes, I'm satisfied to know that I've done my bit. I do make sure that my voice is heard on issues that cause me concern but I do so without seeking to snipe or score points against BASC or its officers on an open public forum.

 

webber

I thank you for your comments, serves to remind me of certain things - usually laced with cynicism and sarcasm. Sadly not all of us can be perfect, me, least of all, perhaps.

[islandgun]

BASC NOT for me

[countryman]

I have been a BASC member for some time, yes i would have liked them to be more vocal on some issues, but in general i am happy to stay with them, if they were not around, the Shooting community would miss them badly.

[Paul T]

I've been a member and served on committee for quite a few organisations over the years. I have learnt that it is absolutely impossible to agree with and implement everything everybody says. It is simply human nature that we will disagree at times, but you really do need to look at the bigger picture and consider the aims of associations as laid down in their constitution.

 

I do I think BASC could have been more vociferous in defending lead shot and I think that greylag being added to the general licence is an absolute travesty.

 

However:

I do know that should my right to shoot, whether it be clays, game, wildfowl, deer or vermin, or should my choice to own guns ever be challenged I know I can pick up the phone and BASC will be there to defend me like a shot (so to speak). If you can get that level of support (guaranteed) from another organisation cheaper, then fair enough.

 

I'm not saying BASC is perfect by any means, but I know I can have confidence in their support when I will need it most. Also, it might be worth noting that the power to change is only vested in members and the more members speak out, the more something is likely to change.

 

Bashing an organisation on a public forum achieves very little.

[Saffa]

I've been a member and served on committee for quite a few organisations over the years. I have learnt that it is absolutely impossible to agree with and implement everything everybody says. It is simply human nature that we will disagree at times, but you really do need to look at the bigger picture and consider the aims of associations as laid down in their constitution.

 

I do I think BASC could have been more vociferous in defending lead shot and I think that greylag being added to the general licence is an absolute travesty.

 

However:

I do know that should my right to shoot, whether it be clays, game, wildfowl, deer or vermin, or should my choice to own guns ever be challenged I know I can pick up the phone and BASC will be there to defend me like a shot (so to speak). If you can get that level of support (guaranteed) from another organisation cheaper, then fair enough.

 

I'm not saying BASC is perfect by any means, but I know I can have confidence in their support when I will need it most. Also, it might be worth noting that the power to change is only vested in members and the more members speak out, the more something is likely to change.

 

Bashing an organisation on a public forum achieves very little.

+1

[ColinF]

I have no idea what NGO members said to their organisation but I remember well BASC's position, because I was a member. I would criticise NGO equally had I been a member and entitled to, as my representative organisation.

I don't see the logic of citing the greylag/general licence issue as a reason for leaving BASC, to go to another organisation which holds the same view?

 

I am a member of NGO, BASC and GWCT and they all agreed with greylag going on the general licence. In fact, I don't know of any shooting organisations that said they were against it?

 

I believe that BASC is the most important organisation to shooting generally, and does the most to promote the sport.

[Kes]

I don't see the logic of citing the greylag/general licence issue as a reason for leaving BASC, to go to another organisation which holds the same view?

 

I am a member of NGO, BASC and GWCT and they all agreed with greylag going on the general licence. In fact, I don't know of any shooting organisations that said they were against it?

 

I believe that BASC is the most important organisation to shooting generally, and does the most to promote the sport.

Personal decision - mine is to leave. In time we will see whether I am wrong or perhaps right. You go your way, I'll go mine.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Kes

[bakerboy]

Can I suggest you go then, as it seems to me you have already made your mind up.

 

Please let us know in a year or two's time what your new chosen shooting organisation has been able to change to suit your requirements

[motty]

I learned a long time ago that tilting at windmills is a waste of a life.

If you don't agree with any element of an organised group, don't join.

If one you are already a member of fails to meet your expectations, criteria, etc., then leave.

 

Its no big deal, life goes on.

 

I believe there are something like 140,000 members of BASC, they are either all very satisfied, or very complacent, but they don't appear to be going anywhere.

Some don't really have much of a choice, at present. I am a BASC member, mostly because it is a condition of my wildfowling subscription.

I used to be a proud member of BASC, now i'm just a member.

[wymberley]

I've been a member and served on committee for quite a few organisations over the years. I have learnt that it is absolutely impossible to agree with and implement everything everybody says. It is simply human nature that we will disagree at times, but you really do need to look at the bigger picture and consider the aims of associations as laid down in their constitution.

 

I do I think BASC could have been more vociferous in defending lead shot and I think that greylag being added to the general licence is an absolute travesty.

 

However:

I do know that should my right to shoot, whether it be clays, game, wildfowl, deer or vermin, or should my choice to own guns ever be challenged I know I can pick up the phone and BASC will be there to defend me like a shot (so to speak). If you can get that level of support (guaranteed) from another organisation cheaper, then fair enough.

 

I'm not saying BASC is perfect by any means, but I know I can have confidence in their support when I will need it most. Also, it might be worth noting that the power to change is only vested in members and the more members speak out, the more something is likely to change.

 

Bashing an organisation on a public forum achieves very little.

I must say that your second paragraph sounds pretty much like "bashing an organisation" to me; particularly when the expression, "an absolute travesty" is used. It makes the heartfelt criticisms of the supposed "bashers" appear quite complimentary by comparison.

[Harnser]

Personal decision - mine is to leave. In time we will see whether I am wrong or perhaps right. You go your way, I'll go mine.

I don't think to many people on this forum care very much if you leave or not . Why don't you just leave . As for finding out whether or not you are right ,I again say I don't think any body cares . Why do you want to sow the seeds of decent ? Is it a personnel dig at BASC ? because that's how it is coming across to me . Just another BASC bashing thread. iam afraid .

 

Harnser

[Paul T]

I must say that your second paragraph sounds pretty much like "bashing an organisation" to me; particularly when the expression, "an absolute travesty" is used. It makes the heartfelt criticisms of the supposed "bashers" appear quite complimentary by comparison.

You're missing the point I think. The fact I disagree with some decisions does not stop me supporting BASC as a whole. Or would it be better if we all took our bat and ball home everytime we failed to get our own way?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Some don't really have much of a choice, at present. I am a BASC member, mostly because it is a condition of my wildfowling subscription.

I used to be a proud member of BASC, now i'm just a member.

 

 

 

I think this post sums the situation up very well!

[norfolk dumpling]

BASC for me is something I have to join to remain a member of a syndicate - for insurance primarily - otherwise I too would be looking elsewhere and I suspect this may be why many people join/remain members. The growth in membership possibly coming from the popularity of our sport rather than the endeavours of the organisation itself.

 

My own issues with BASC are more at a local level however as I strongly believe East Anglian has been badly neglected by them. The counties of Norfolk and Suffolk are probably the heaviest shot-over in England yet very little in the way of events seems to happen here. We have a few country shows where you see the BASC stand but that seems to be it. I emailed the previous (+1) director a few years back but didn't even get the courtesy of a reply. Now EA has been merged into 'Central' which seems to have a heavy bias towards the Midlands. There was a BASC roadshow several years ago which was very well supported. This took place at an agricultural college which due to FMD was abandoned for a while but the attempt to resurrect was so poorly advertised attendance was poor an thus the event not repeated. If you look at the events calendar in the mag - just received one so check your selves - we seem to be missing out on the sort of events which bring the shooting community together. CA by contrast appear to be very active and a number of events (very family oriented too) taking place.

 

BASC knows from the work they do elsewhere what works, what unifies the shooting community and how to get support. All I'm asking for is for them to not forget about us.

[Scully]

You're missing the point I think. The fact I disagree with some decisions does not stop me supporting BASC as a whole. Or would it be better if we all took our bat and ball home everytime we failed to get our own way?

For me, as I've said, it's an accumulation of disappointments over many years. The point about sulking off with your bat and ball isn't really relevant, as there is a cost involved in remaining, but none in leaving.

I too was bound to BASC by my shooting syndicate, but after explaining to them why I felt I had to leave they were quite happy so long as I was insured, which I still am.

I have no doubt the same disappointments I experienced with BASC will occur with my new organisation (after all, if the UK's biggest shooting organisation can't deliver, then it isn't likely the smaller ones will) but like I said, the cost of that disappointment will be cheaper and I have the knowledge that I'm not subsidising some fat cats pension fun(d).

BASC do some very good things, but for reasons of my own I now distrust them. I'm not berating anyone for joining, nor leaving; you pays your money, you makes your choice.

[David BASC]

Norfolk Dumpling, I will pass your comments on to the new Director for your area

 

David

[norfolk dumpling]

I'm in for a little longer or at least until I find something better. I know there is a lot of stuff going on at high level which generally I support but at a local level there is little doubt Norfolk/Suffolk are neglected and the disbandment of an Eastern region has left us isolated. Increasingly on the 5/6 shoots where I work/play I'm seeing more NGO badges - perhaps this is the way forward??

[wymberley]

You're missing the point I think. The fact I disagree with some decisions does not stop me supporting BASC as a whole. Or would it be better if we all took our bat and ball home everytime we failed to get our own way?

Possibly; it depends how you define bashing I suppose. As long as you don't decide to leave, then disagreeing with, and being critical of, some decisions on a public forum is not defined as "bashing". Got it now.

[bakerboy]

I'm in for a little longer or at least until I find something better. I know there is a lot of stuff going on at high level which generally I support but at a local level there is little doubt Norfolk/Suffolk are neglected and the disbandment of an Eastern region has left us isolated. Increasingly on the 5/6 shoots where I work/play I'm seeing more NGO badges - perhaps this is the way forward??

Eastern Region was not dis banded.

It was amalgamated into a new look Central region, this happened to other regions as well. It is early day yet but I am positive benefits will be seen soon, Chris Brookes and Simon Rienhold are still very much involved so little change in real terms.

[demonwolf444]

Biased as i am,

 

Running a small campaign against WHsmiths two years ago i met many people who worked at BASC and spoke to many others at other organizations, out of all the people i spoke to aside from the shooting press, BASC was the only organization to make good on the promises made to me, and genuinely sought to help and advise me at every opportunity. I have approached BASC for help and guidance on unrelated matters and have always been impressed with the level of service i have received from them. Meeting people who work at BASC i was impressed with the high level of professionalism within the organization but also genuine passion for shooting sports.

 

I think and know all to well, having since been involved in many other campaigns and organizations, the difficulty in pleasing shooting sportsmen and women, due to the diversity of the membership which brings with it unique challenges, as such i can fully appreciate that at times members may not be entirely satisfied with an organization that tries its best to represent that diverse a community.

 

I am convinced BASC does a damned good job, and i will continue to support them. I strongly question anyone who leaves an organization like BASC in favor of one that may be little more than an insurance broker. I think we could see great benefits from greater cooperation between the various organization's and would go so far as to support an amalgamation between two or more representative organization.

 

It goes against my principles but the only effective method of full representation of the active shooting community as i see it would be mandatory membership of an elected organization to hold FAC / SGC.

[norfolk dumpling]

I'm too of the opinion there should be a coming together of some of our field sports orgs. I'm sticking with BASC for the meantime but I'm not happy with the local situation. I understand what demonwolf is saying by the reference to 'insurance broking' as this is the hook by which we are (nearly) all caught, even though I know my household ins gives me the same cover (it was my old job). There are some meaty commissions to be had in this type of specialist biz!! In an earlier forum I did say I felt we needed (in a perfect world!) all country sports, shooting, angling and hunting, to come together and, led by someone of star status or ability, to really make government and the country to understand how significant we are. Utopia.

[Scully]

Amalgamation is not going to happen, nor even greater co-operation if it clashes with any organisations chosen policy, it simply isn't, that is why we have so many different organisations all representing their own best interests, because despite all being shooters, we don't see eye to eye.

It is fine and dandy for any shooting organisation to get so close to those in positions of authority for the purpose of seeking influence, but it only works up to a point. Yes, we need dialogue with such people and organisations, political parties etc, but any organisation which gets so close runs the danger of becoming part of that political clique, and any organisation with ambitions to become the Governments advisory body on such matters, while still representing its members, will lose much of its influence due to the nature of the game of politics. If this happens, then it is the survival of the organisation which takes precedence over all else.

What we need is numbers, regardless of which organisation they belong to. Numbers to the extent that any and all political parties have to sit up and take notice when deciding on policy. But even then, if we're all bickering between ourselves over who shoots what with what and when and why, as we do now, instead of all singing from the same song sheet, then even if we amount to millions, we are no better off than we are now.

If you want our organisations to amalgamate, then deliver them an ultimatum. We can't even agree that amalgamation is what we need, so it aint gonna happen.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Scully