stepping up a gear advise

[dob]

i have a .17hmr and i am thinking of getting a bigger rifle for fox control , i was thinking of going for the .17 centre fire or something like a 223 ,

any advise?

[casts_by_fly]

222/223/22-250

 

The 17 centerfires are fine if you know what you are using them for. If you just want general fox, then a 22 centerfire is your bet. Apply for 22 centerfire and then find the gun you want with whatever specific cartridge it is. There isn't much between them for most people.

 

Rick

[kent]

don't get a .17 cf or even a .22 Hornet for fox unless your getting rid of the hmr IMO or the hummer is likely to end up spending its life in the gun cupboard. Two choices 1. buy a .22 centrefire .222, .223, 22-250 being the most common or step up another gear again and 2. get a .243 win that you can also use for all deer throughout the whole of the UK as well as fox avoiding owning too many guns over the years

[Olliesims]

In my eyes a .243 would be the best bet, I got myself a .223 as my first fox calibre and with in a year was putting in for a variation selling the .223 at a loss plus the variation fee I could of saved myself a few hundred quid, if you plan on never shooting deer ( apart from muntjac and chinese water deer) then I would do as Kent said and get yourself a .22 cf, had the .243 for 2 years now and its brilliant

[Alycidon]

17 centerfires have their place but do get blown around in any wind.

 

A one rifle fox rifle caliber, 204 is superb, 222 Highly accurate, formally the Benchrest shooters favourite before 6PPC. 223 good all round caliber.

 

If deer are likely to be shot then go 243. Personally I would avoid 22.250, I have had one, a friend has had one, both good killers yes but lacked the pinpoint accuracy of 204/222/223.

 

A

[welshwarrior]

Personally if I wasn't shooting deer I'd have a 204 then a 222 then a 223

 

If easy to find cheap ammo is needed 223 has an edge. I loved my 204 and it complimented a 308 brilliantly, I then decided for some reason 1 cf was what I needed so went 243. I think the 243 is a great fox round as well.

[MarcusSmart]

I was in a similar situation a while back, already had a CZ455 .22 thumb hole and a Ruger M77 mk2 .270 on home loads, I wanted an in between rifle for foxes.

 

Liked the idea of a .204 very fast and flat, none about 2nd hand and warned that they could have burnt out barrels!

 

So went for a CZ527 .222 on home loads so cheap ammo, probably comes out the most now, and is very accurate!

[kent]

17 centerfires have their place but do get blown around in any wind.

 

A one rifle fox rifle caliber, 204 is superb, 222 Highly accurate, formally the Benchrest shooters favourite before 6PPC. 223 good all round caliber.

 

If deer are likely to be shot then go 243. Personally I would avoid 22.250, I have had one, a friend has had one, both good killers yes but lacked the pinpoint accuracy of 204/222/223.

 

A

I never got the 22-250till quite recent its very adaptable in the loading room offering high accuracy with loads from .22 hornet levels to full stacked .243 class fast varmint mirrors (downside not all deer legal here). Variants and std versions have also recorded impressive scores competitively (barrel life precludes it from common use mind)

 

Its very subjective saying one cartridge is more accurate than another the British BR 1000 yard record was held by a .243 set by Peter Jackson and its very popular at sniper tactical matches also Tubbs (perhaps the greatest hi-power shooter) won with it only stopping because he could go a full season with one barrel

Edited September 1, 2014 by kent

[Archie-fox]

I've played around with most rifles/calibers..

 

I've now got a 243 for fox/deer and a 17hmr for everything else, plus the usual shotguns..

 

And I'm happy with my choices..,

[kent]

I've played around with most rifles/calibers..

 

I've now got a 243 for fox/deer and a 17hmr for everything else, plus the usual shotguns..

 

And I'm happy with my choices..,

 

I think there is a lot to be said about fewer rifles that you know how to use well and don't cover the same ground twice! For me its .22 air 12ftlb, .22 LR , .22 Hornet and .243 win (very little cross over and I am good for all but Boar)

[keg]

.22LR, .17HMR, .222CF & a slot for a 308 when i can afford it. Cover most bases

[neutron619]

I can make a .308 shoot like a .22LR and everything in between - reloading will really open up possibilities, making calibre choice somewhat less relevant.

 

That said, go for .22-250 if you reload and want variety, otherwise the .222 for accuracy.

 

(I see kent's been here talking about his .243 again. I'm only new here, but that's 3 times in 3 days I think. I feel like I'm getting to know some of you already! )

[kent]

I can make a .308 shoot like a .22LR and everything in between - reloading will really open up possibilities, making calibre choice somewhat less relevant.

 

That said, go for .22-250 if you reload and want variety, otherwise the .222 for accuracy.

 

(I see kent's been here talking about his .243 again. I'm only new here, but that's 3 times in 3 days I think. I feel like I'm getting to know some of you already! )

 

You might get a .308 subsonic but that's hardly shooting like a .22lr when its thumping out a great big lump of lead to achieve it

[flynny]

I've played around with most rifles/calibers..

I've now got a 243 for fox/deer and a 17hmr for everything else, plus the usual shotguns..

And I'm happy with my choices..,

I think there is a lot to be said about fewer rifles that you know how to use well and don't cover the same ground twice! For me its .22 air 12ftlb, .22 LR , .22 Hornet and .243 win (very little cross over and I am good for all but Boar)

I agree, I've got 22 rf and 243cf now, just sold my 223 as the 243 gets picked up more often, same as Kent I've got what I need for this country's quarry species. I've had 22 250, 17 hmr and 22 wmr and 223 ,

 

Just apply for what you want and have a play over time with em, you'll soon keep what you need and what suits you,

 

223 sounds like a winner to me a nice step up learning curve from 17 hmr, it's cheap to feed and ammo is sold everywhere , oh yes and it makes foxes dead,

 

Atb

 

Flynny

Edited September 3, 2014 by flynny

[neutron619]

 

You might get a .308 subsonic but that's hardly shooting like a .22lr when its thumping out a great big lump of lead to achieve it

 

Yeah, but I didn't say how it was like the .22 LR. In fact I meant that the trajectory is about the same. Energy is about 3x higher. "Lump" is 110gr soft cast.

 

Anyway - my point is that reloading will hugely increase the versatility of any rifle you buy, so choose according to the range of bullet weights and the maximum energy you can reasonably get out of it. After that you can cross-load and down-load to get whatever bullet with whatever trajectory / energy you think will do whatever job you're trying to do.

 

Just apply for what you want and have a play over time with em, you'll soon keep what you need and what suits you

 

Good comment. +1.

[kent]

 

Yeah, but I didn't say how it was like the .22 LR. In fact I meant that the trajectory is about the same. Energy is about 3x higher. "Lump" is 110gr soft cast.

 

Anyway - my point is that reloading will hugely increase the versatility of any rifle you buy, so choose according to the range of bullet weights and the maximum energy you can reasonably get out of it. After that you can cross-load and down-load to get whatever bullet with whatever trajectory / energy you think will do whatever job you're trying to do.

 

 

Good comment. +1.

 

Actually you should re-read your post. Apologies if your words were not meant as you wrote them but you still said you could get it to shoot like a .22 lr and everything in between.

 

The 22-250 holds great scope in the loading room ( I have no wish to make a subsonic assassination or deer poaching tool) but the 250 is a gun I never rated until I found out what it could do as regards accurate shooting between 2500-4000 fps with what pretty much amounts to the same bullets and different powders, so it need not be just a barrel burning tool of the long range daylight vermin shooter. So you do have a point about being able to change a gun via loading it different. .222 and .223 can be loaded down to the levels of a .22 mag or even replicate a hornet but they are not actually I world away from a hand loaded hornet as far as practical purposes go anyhow.

 

I haven't experienced a 110 grn soft lead .308 subsonic just the commonly known heavy weight copper jacket Sub route used by the military perhaps you can detail how you actually do this and how good it holds on paper?

[neutron619]

 

Actually you should re-read your post. Apologies if your words were not meant as you wrote them but you still said you could get it to shoot like a .22 lr and everything in between.

 

The 22-250 holds great scope in the loading room ( I have no wish to make a subsonic assassination or deer poaching tool) but the 250 is a gun I never rated until I found out what it could do as regards accurate shooting between 2500-4000 fps with what pretty much amounts to the same bullets and different powders, so it need not be just a barrel burning tool of the long range daylight vermin shooter. So you do have a point about being able to change a gun via loading it different. .222 and .223 can be loaded down to the levels of a .22 mag or even replicate a hornet but they are not actually I world away from a hand loaded hornet as far as practical purposes go anyhow.

 

I haven't experienced a 110 grn soft lead .308 subsonic just the commonly known heavy weight copper jacket Sub route used by the military perhaps you can detail how you actually do this and how good it holds on paper?

 

Well - we can argue about what I meant till the cows come home and I know what my intention was, but let's just say I can create loadings between about 300-400ftlbs energy and 3000ftlbs energy with different trajectories and bullet weights existing within that range.

 

I assume your comment about "subsonic assassination or deer poaching tool" wasn't intended to be libellous...

 

The recipe for the subsonic uses a 110-115gr "soupcan" bullet in soft lead (BHN 15 or maybe a bit higher). In my rifle I use them sized to .309", but it depends on the barrel. Those, on top of 7-9.5gr of IMR Trail Boss usually give a velocity of 800-1050fps.

 

Performance-wise, they're best zeroed at 50 yards and are good enough to hit 4" circles out to 100 yards consistently, but they're best between 40yd and 70yd. Sometimes you can get 1-2" @ 100yd, but they're not very good - the best (most accurate) load I've had (and they are variable, even between good, consistent loadings) was for 9.0gr which gave about 1½" over 5 shots. I use them without a moderator and they provide negligible recoil. I never intended them for shooting game, never have and never would, though they'd do in place of a pistol for humane despatch. They would probably do quite well for a "tin can alley" kind of shooting. Indeed, I think the major use for Trail Boss is gallery rifle.

 

By the way - .22-250, or any .22CF can be loaded to behave identically to an LR with the same pistol powder approach. Not sure why you would, given how cheap rimfire ammo is, but you could doubtless make a 40gr SP come out of a '250 barrel at 1050fps and duplicate an LR sub. It's why I may one day replace (or add to) my .308 with a .300 magnum of some kind - bigger case means more versatility and more reloading experiements to try....

Edited September 4, 2014 by neutron619