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Dog Training Collars


evo
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Thanks scotslad. I have been using a cork screw recently, it obviously stops him running in but on the occasions he has tried he gets himself over excited and starts to whimper which is even more annoying then running in.

Sometimes I feel like putting some number 6 up his Jacksy let alone a collar. LOL

Be warned! I was told a story of a man who had a similar problem and was advised to load some cartridges with rice grains. When his dog ran in he gave it both barrels to try to deter it but ran past an Italian who shot the dog and said "I finish it off for you!" Now I reiterate it is just a story so hope it was made up! :) Edited by Ttfjlc
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has anyone ever used these and if so what are your thoughts,

 

Reason I,m asking is whilst walking my dog around yesterday waiting for the trainer to turn up, my springer decided to run off and totally ignored the recall and NO call and off he went to the side of the wood sniffing about,

 

I decided to walk in the opposite direction from him and when he realised I wasn,t there he came bounding back to me with his tail between his legs, he seems normally to do this if he spots another dog but only on very rare occasions,

 

my trainer turned up and I explained what had happened and he decided to put a collar on him and not too shock him but only on vibrate, we decided to walk around and see if he would run off again,,this he did and when I called NO and he ignored me again my trainer vibrated his collar and he jumped and ran strait back to me,,

 

we tried to see if he would do it again and he stuck by my side the whole session, he worked brilliantly lefts and rights , backs and recalled excellent, we could not fault him at all,

 

he,s really was eager to please, anyway took him out this morning and 5 mins into his training off he went again and did not recall, in the end I had to go and get him and put him on his lead, I did not shout at him as the last thing I want is him scared to come back if he does something wrong,

 

is it worth me getting one of these collars or should I just stick with his formal training which has been going excellent so far,its only this last week where he has started to disobey me

 

thoughts please on what you recommend

 

thanks in advance for any replies

 

atb Evo

Sorry bob where are my manners, I was told by a trainer (a very good one) that if the dog goes and all else fails yell "good boy get back!" :)

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Be warned! I was told a story of a man who had a similar problem and was advised to load some cartridges with rice grains. When his dog ran in he gave it both barrels to try to deter it but ran past an Italian who shot the dog and said "I finish it off for you!" Now I reiterate it is just a story so hope it was made up! :)

Brilliant LOL

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We have a IDT training collar that is very good. Most of the time my dog works well with a few minor slip ups but that happens there not machines.

 

On occasion he has got on a scent and completely ignored the stop whistle after looking at me and gone off on it. I never want a dog to learn ha he can't stop me now I'm to far off for him to stop me. My cocker dog is headstrong and hard. The collar is used after being given a clear command is ignored.

 

It's nearly a year since it was last used but he has started thinking he knows best when I send him left and he wants to go right for a smell he picked up on, so if he keeps this up he will be persuaded to follow my commands again via the collar for as long as it takes.

 

We are all different and so are our dogs, some dogs would never need the use of a training collar others would never be any good for purpose with out its use.

 

One thing I never do is use as a punishment for not doing as he is told, it's set only as high as needed to make him think twice, most times vibrate is enough.

 

Figgy

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Be warned! I was told a story of a man who had a similar problem and was advised to load some cartridges with rice grains. When his dog ran in he gave it both barrels to try to deter it but ran past an Italian who shot the dog and said "I finish it off for you!" Now I reiterate it is just a story so hope it was made up! :)

 

Have actually heard off that story a few times off keepers was meant to be on a grouse moor and the dog always ran in on first shots forward, so he had cartridges loaded wilth rock salt. The quote i was told and always sticks with me was as the dog ran back after giving a bit of a whimper his neighbour say's " I wipe ur eye englishman" (1 keeper esp this was his keepers day party piece full of whisky trying to do an italian accent :lol: )

Not entirely sure it is true but could be possible in a grouse moor setting.

 

I knew a gun who would just let his dog get a good distance then just shoot it with 7's (NOT advocating anyone to do that thou0

Edited by scotslad
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Have actually heard off that story a few times off keepers was meant to be on a grouse moor and the dog always ran in on first shots forward, so he had cartridges loaded wilth rock salt. The quote i was told and always sticks with me was as the dog ran back after giving a bit of a whimper his neighbour say's " I wipe ur eye englishman" (1 keeper esp this was his keepers day party piece full of whisky trying to do an italian accent :lol: )

Not entirely sure it is true but could be possible in a grouse moor setting.

 

I knew a gun who would just let his dog get a good distance then just shoot it with 7's (NOT advocating anyone to do that thou0

Haha! Well the fact that you and I have both heard of it makes me think there maybe some truth in it somewhere no matter how much it's suffered the Chinese whispers treatment :)

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Just my own personal view... if the dog does something wrong i always look at myself and think " i trained him so i must have fu**ed it up somewhere, a dog is a dog if your training is sub standard poor or inadequate why then punish the poor ****** try sticking one around your own neck and correct yourself when the dog goes wrong.

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I think the hardest problem so far in reply to above post has been "getting me doing the right things"

 

you read the books and not one of them say,s the same, they all have their way(trainers) and their way(trainers) is always correct,

 

one thing I was told to learn from a totally different trainer was to " learn dog language " when I asked what the hell he meant he replied " silence", he told me everything should be done with hand signals,,

 

now please don't tell me this fella hasn,t got a clue because he works with 3 ,,yes 3 labs on our beat and none of them move until they are told, but to watch this guy working his 3 labs is an absolute pleasure, two will sit still whilst the other is retrieving and then he will swap a dog and so on,,they are so obedient it really is fantastic to watch,,

 

what has baffled me by some of the replies is how some have jumped to the conclusion that the guy who is training my dog with me is a total waste of time and money because he is Not a trainer as some have quoted,, why is he not a trainer when all he did was give me an example of the collar at work and with vibrate NOT shock,, yet some of those who have slated the trainer have since said they have used collars themselves,,i really cant get my head round that,,

 

my trainer has not told me to use a collar but was showing me just how effective they can be in certain circumstances , yet people think he is not a trainer ,,I,m baffled as to why people have these thoughts

 

atb Evo

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I think the hardest problem so far in reply to above post has been "getting me doing the right things"

 

you read the books and not one of them say,s the same, they all have their way(trainers) and their way(trainers) is always correct,

 

one thing I was told to learn from a totally different trainer was to " learn dog language " when I asked what the hell he meant he replied " silence", he told me everything should be done with hand signals,,

 

now please don't tell me this fella hasn,t got a clue because he works with 3 ,,yes 3 labs on our beat and none of them move until they are told, but to watch this guy working his 3 labs is an absolute pleasure, two will sit still whilst the other is retrieving and then he will swap a dog and so on,,they are so obedient it really is fantastic to watch,,

 

what has baffled me by some of the replies is how some have jumped to the conclusion that the guy who is training my dog with me is a total waste of time and money because he is Not a trainer as some have quoted,, why is he not a trainer when all he did was give me an example of the collar at work and with vibrate NOT shock,, yet some of those who have slated the trainer have since said they have used collars themselves,,i really cant get my head round that,,

 

my trainer has not told me to use a collar but was showing me just how effective they can be in certain circumstances , yet people think he is not a trainer ,,I,m baffled as to why people have these thoughts

 

atb Evo

Don't worry bob I know what your talking about, a chap I know could train a dog to kiss his backside if he wanted to. My dad has witnessed him work SEVEN springer spaniels all at once in a sugarbeet field and he is known to have worked TEN dogs at one time up on the grouse moors yet even with all these credentials he has said to me before that some dogs (after being spoilt) would benefit from a collar.

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has anyone ever used these and if so what are your thoughts,

 

Reason I,m asking is whilst walking my dog around yesterday waiting for the trainer to turn up, my springer decided to run off and totally ignored the recall and NO call and off he went to the side of the wood sniffing about,

 

I decided to walk in the opposite direction from him and when he realised I wasn,t there he came bounding back to me with his tail between his legs, he seems normally to do this if he spots another dog but only on very rare occasions,

 

my trainer turned up and I explained what had happened and he decided to put a collar on him and not too shock him but only on vibrate, we decided to walk around and see if he would run off again,,this he did and when I called NO and he ignored me again my trainer vibrated his collar and he jumped and ran strait back to me,,

 

we tried to see if he would do it again and he stuck by my side the whole session, he worked brilliantly lefts and rights , backs and recalled excellent, we could not fault him at all,

 

he,s really was eager to please, anyway took him out this morning and 5 mins into his training off he went again and did not recall, in the end I had to go and get him and put him on his lead, I did not shout at him as the last thing I want is him scared to come back if he does something wrong,

 

is it worth me getting one of these collars or should I just stick with his formal training which has been going excellent so far,its only this last week where he has started to disobey me

 

thoughts please on what you recommend

 

thanks in advance for any replies

 

atb Evo

And why with this obvious knowledge base do you ask someone else if they even have a dog?

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Don't want to worry anybody but I thought shock collars were banned about 2 years ago but I'm normally wrong about these things

Just in Wales, you coming from Gwent though I understand the error. I opposed the ban in England in discusions but I am rapidly changing my personal view as they are easily abused by being put in place of good traditional ways. There are times Reward based training falls down stock breaking, unwanted barking in the car etc and here they can pay dividends however when put to use for poor recall and such things they are just the wrong thing to my mind.

I used an owned a PAC 2 dog set that I used to stock break a very difficult dog, after conventional methods proved to weak to out last all temptation and lets face it last. I live on a sheep farm and there is no way I can just avoid sheep. I made mistakes (like we all do if we admit it) and furthered the use in other areas, this is daft we have trained dogs very well using std reward based training for hundreds of years, stock breaking and such has always been correctional aversion training. What collars offer here is timing! and no connection with the owner if done correctly. Got a dog that tries to bite the tyres on the quad in movement? Barks in the back of the truck? Chases cyclists? has a go at the neighbours chickens etc they are one cool tool.

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I think the hardest problem so far in reply to above post has been "getting me doing the right things"

 

you read the books and not one of them say,s the same, they all have their way(trainers) and their way(trainers) is always correct,

 

one thing I was told to learn from a totally different trainer was to " learn dog language " when I asked what the hell he meant he replied " silence", he told me everything should be done with hand signals,,

 

now please don't tell me this fella hasn,t got a clue because he works with 3 ,,yes 3 labs on our beat and none of them move until they are told, but to watch this guy working his 3 labs is an absolute pleasure, two will sit still whilst the other is retrieving and then he will swap a dog and so on,,they are so obedient it really is fantastic to watch,,

 

what has baffled me by some of the replies is how some have jumped to the conclusion that the guy who is training my dog with me is a total waste of time and money because he is Not a trainer as some have quoted,, why is he not a trainer when all he did was give me an example of the collar at work and with vibrate NOT shock,, yet some of those who have slated the trainer have since said they have used collars themselves,,i really cant get my head round that,,

 

my trainer has not told me to use a collar but was showing me just how effective they can be in certain circumstances , yet people think he is not a trainer ,,I,m baffled as to why people have these thoughts

 

atb Evo

They say it because they think their way is the only way and are not open to other ideas or methods , they offer advice but in most cases there dog will most probably be as well trained as the famous "Fenton"

 

If you are happy with your trainer stick with him and take advice from only him , make your own mind up on if your dog needs a collar or not , they will certainly help in some situations if used correctly .

I am sure if Fenton had been zapped he would have behaved differently.

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And why with this obvious knowledge base do you ask someone else if they even have a dog?

kent,,the reason I asked if you even had a dog was because you where one of the first to basically tell me that my trainer is not a trainer because he showed me how a collar worked on my dog,

 

yet in your second breath you have clearly stated you have repeatedly used these collars in the past, so are you quoting from experience or from a book ???

 

I was not being funny ,I was merely asking if you even had a dog, as I have asked before if you ever go shooting also and you have yet to show any proof that you do either but you are always there to comment on everything, I do find you interesting and very knowledgeable but at times wonder if some of your replies are from the net/books,

 

please don't think I,m being offensive because I,m not

 

atb Evo

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They say it because they think their way is the only way and are not open to other ideas or methods , they offer advice but in most cases there dog will most probably be as well trained as the famous "Fenton"

 

If you are happy with your trainer stick with him and take advice from only him , make your own mind up on if your dog needs a collar or not , they will certainly help in some situations if used correctly .

I am sure if Fenton had been zapped he would have behaved differently.

thanks Fenboy,,appreciate you comment

 

atb Evo

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Evo i don't know kent but his advice always seems to be quite good to me.

 

I also thought he sounds like he hasnae a clue if u read any stuff on e collars (vibraete or not) the secret to them is to get the dog used to the collar before hand, if u continue to carry on the way u are u will have to have ur dog wearing the collar all the time as it associates the collar with the correction/behaving, so if no collar can do wot ever it likes.

I know a few dogs been trained badly that work with the e collars on all the time, 1 of the boys lost the handset years ago but still works the dog wearing it as it behaves better.

 

Having 3 dogs sit and get indivdual retrieves may look very clever (but even i can do that with my 3/4,not really that hard) i regularly see boys working 6 or 8 dogs at the same time esp on the grouse, These boys are also sending there dogs back 2,3 or even 400m at the drop of a hat in a straight line, not just ur average retrives

1 of those boys has been out with 17 labs all walking to heel, when doing some walked up rabbit shooting/training and too far to get them out the motor.

 

I would be looking at the trainers credentials slightly harder and the way he deals/treats his dogs, having 3 dgs sit is honestly not that hard and not a guage of a good trainer. I also do not think u need to be a pro trainer or loads of FT awards makes u a good trainer plenty of very good amatuers out there that do not trial, but also some complete numpties that might look and sound the part

 

And most of the best trainers i know actually advise (althou this is mibee for more advanced handlers) u to see other trainers as well as u are always learning and picing up different things

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The dog must not associate the collar or even the sender unit with the correction (pac even recommend hiding the controller unit in a pocket with some dogs). Some suppliers even supply a dummy collar but I should use the same strap and preferably the same unset unit as dogs can often tell from smell that one is different.

 

I think your just being daft and a tad insulting Evo, you don't know me and know nothing of my circumstance or experience questioned if I owned a dog. Yes there are some internet experts who likely started last year ( if I really wanted to I could blow some wide open but then it looks like sour grapes and besides they add entertainment) yes I have a lot of books about all manner of fieldsports etc. Having a keen interest in such things for as long as I can remember, thing is if you read five books on a single matter they don't all agree 100% and some are downright laughable fabrications and some authors change their mind in time and future editions (such is life if you are not stuck in ignorance and bigotry) - this is different from the internet how? You know my GP has a lot of books in her office it don't make me think she doesn't know her stuff- far from it in fact

 

I used a collar and misused a collar, when I used one it was very good when I misused one it was poor. I sold it on here and vetted buyers on their use turning down the first three or four. The thing is once you own one its very tempting to employ their use in less suited areas, that was my choice and my conscience.

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The dog must not associate the collar or even the sender unit with the correction (pac even recommend hiding the controller unit in a pocket with some dogs). Some suppliers even supply a dummy collar but I should use the same strap and preferably the same unset unit as dogs can often tell from smell that one is different.

 

I think your just being daft and a tad insulting Evo, you don't know me and know nothing of my circumstance or experience questioned if I owned a dog. Yes there are some internet experts who likely started last year ( if I really wanted to I could blow some wide open but then it looks like sour grapes and besides they add entertainment) yes I have a lot of books about all manner of fieldsports etc. Having a keen interest in such things for as long as I can remember, thing is if you read five books on a single matter they don't all agree 100% and some are downright laughable fabrications and some authors change their mind in time and future editions (such is life if you are not stuck in ignorance and bigotry) - this is different from the internet how? You know my GP has a lot of books in her office it don't make me think she doesn't know her stuff- far from it in fact

 

I used a collar and misused a collar, when I used one it was very good when I misused one it was poor. I sold it on here and vetted buyers on their use turning down the first three or four. The thing is once you own one its very tempting to employ their use in less suited areas, that was my choice and my conscience.

kent,, I know I can be daft, but I apologise to you if you thought I was being insulting as that was not my intention,,

 

atb Evo

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