Gunsmiths

[bostonmick]

Skills have been lost and skills have been gained such is progress, unfortunately for the old skills modern machinery can work to what were unthinkable tolerances in the 30s and labour costs are not so cheap now we have less separation of wealth

And living in the south east corner of the country it's hardly surprising you believe there to be less separation of wealth.

[spanj]

This is where I take my hat off to the French with their Meilleur Ouvrier de France

They give specific recognition to tradespeople and skilled artesians who are at the top of their game.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meilleur_Ouvrier_de_France

 

It's almost like a title, and for instance French bakers who are MOF wear a special band on their collars signifying their status (other artisans may do this too). If you do so without being a MOF - technically this is illegal in law, potentially imprisonable.

 

There was a nice documentary film on how pastry chefs prepared for this - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1558972/ - check it out if you can.

well well well I never knew that ...........

[bostonmick]

Engravers fine but what about a barrel maker who creates new barrels out of rough machining's or a stocker who is given a new action and set of measurements and a block of wood ,no pattern to copy just their skill and experience to produce the finished article .

Yes there is a degree of just fitting factory made parts as I'm sure that a carpenter will buy and hang a new ready made door from Jewson rather than making it ,There is still a lot of skill and knowhow out there but as time goes by is being lost ,there is no real manufacturing base left in the UK that used to be the training ground for those like myself who were apprenticed and worked on most aspects building new guns before moving on and away from the centres of gunmaking.

I also agree that there are and have been a good few largely self taught men of excellent ability and reputation but my original point was that there far to many "gunsmiths " who have no skill, little knowledge or ability and it is these that I have issue with as how do people know who they are trusting there guns to .

I wonder when the last set of barrels were made by hand in this country. I would say those rough machinings are put straight onto a computerised lathe and the job is done on autopilot.the stocker is a skilled man but not a gunsmith.my idea of a gunsmith is a person who could make a complete gun himself like the local smith would have done say 80 to 100 years ago.today they are mostly assemblers.as for self taught I wonder how many guns were ruined while they learnt and at what cost to who.i have seen first hand some peoples guns after the local screwdriver expert has been at them and then the bill from the professional to make it good again.but each to their own.as they say it's your cash your choice.we were the best in the world for all engineering our craftsmen were second to none I for one think it a great shame they have almost gone.but as others have said that's progress. Ha ha Edited September 13, 2014 by bostonmick

[Gunman]

To answer your question if you PM me I will give you the names and numbers of a couple of working barrel makers and you can ask them . OK a Stocker like an engraver or a barrel maker or an actioner ,action filer , barrel blacker hardener ETC. are not "gunsmiths "but come under the generic term, in Birmingham they referred to themselves a "gunmen " .I also question your idea of a man who could make a complete gun himself ,I doubt he ever existed as even 100 years ago small gunmaker's bought in machining's ,action bodies , forend irons ,trigger plates and pre filed barrels from trade out workers and although he may have built up the gun even stocked it he would have used a trade engraver and hardener .

 

Clay man you mention Webley and Scott actual in the 70's there were 26 /27 men involved not counting the bores polishers and hardener most men did one job as a main but often doubled up or had a second string . Apprentices moved around and learnt some degree of most aspects before tending to specialise in one area other than engravers .Many apprentices stayed with the company for a few years before moving on to the likes of Westley Richards ,Wrights /Churchill or other s .

 

My area was freeing fitting and final assembly ,lever work ,jointing and inside work as a stand by fill in . 1968/1977

Since then I have leaned a lot more .

Question for Bostonmick as a carpenter when was the last time you made bay window or panelled door by hand ?

Edited September 13, 2014 by Gunman

[deershooter]

I do not consider myself to be a gunsmith ,but now possibly a rifle smith over the years I have built a number of rifles this normally involves machining and hand finishing however it's nothing like a gunsmith just a very good engineer .

 

Deershooter

[kent]

And living in the south east corner of the country it's hardly surprising you believe there to be less separation of wealth.

 

how wrong can you be with an assumption

[kent]

You know a man can gain more skills in life and the learning does not need to stop.

 

Deershooter,

Its firmly my belief that if you take a skilled engineer and tell him exactly what you want he is more than capable, there is an engineering company from Hesketh Bank nr Preston busy proving this with their shotguns. In fact they might even move things on past the 1930s

[Big Mat]

 

Boston mick was that Pete Whylie?

 

Pete is still alive and well doing work on guns, or he was when he did my 10 bore a few months back!

[Ttfjlc]

Pete is still alive and well doing work on guns, or he was when he did my 10 bore a few months back!

Shhh! He told me he was semi-retiring, when I asked him what day's he was going to work to avoid calling him on his day's off he said he hadn't worked that out yet

[demonwolf444]

Most shops that offer gunsmiths services are more than capable of fitting new parts for stuff that is currently in production which deals with almost any faults that would bring in modern made guns to the shop. Some shops have an in house specialist who might have gone on a course such as one run by Beretta which i imagine gives you a basic understanding of faults, remedies and frequent problems. A good smith will tell you when they can't do something and where they will be sending it on to be done.