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Application for Deer stalking / .243


00jacksonp
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Hi guys

I am an experienced shooter who has been shooting since I could hold a 410.

I have been shooting game and as I have got a bit older with new permissions that are cleared for full bore rifles.

I am looking into applying for my FAC so that I can buy and use it for pest control of foxes and Muntjac on a rough shoot that Myself and my dad started about 10 years ago.

Previously I have used a combination of my fathers guns and close friends to conduct the pest control (17hmr - 22 rimfire) .

I work with Military equipment on a day to day basis with calibre weapons much larger then .243.

I mentioned it casually to my local firearms officer and he seemed concerned that I didn't have any experience with deer stalking ( I have been with friends shooting muntjac).

I am extremely keen to try and get this ball rolling .If anyone has had any trouble with this and/or has any advise on the best way to close down a potential areas for concern for a firearms officer I would love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks in advance for anybody who takes the time to reply.

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One option that you may be able to go for is to apply for a .243 to shoot foxes with and make sure that the police force us the "..any other lawful quarry" provision on your licence. Previously you would see conditions such as ".22-250 to be used for the shooting of foxes." This would have made it illegal to shoot a rabbit. Now standard firearms guidance is to issue "...shooting of foxes and any other lawful quarry". This would allow you to shoot deer as well as they are lawful quarry. Just make sure you also stipulate expanding ammunition on your licence.

 

On the firearms form where it ask for use state Shooting of foxes, vermin, and any other lawful quarry.

 

If you have any issues you could potentially look at undertaking DSC 1. This will give the firearms officer more confidence but it is certainly not a prerequisite

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It appears you dont have a firearm certificate at present and use rifles under close supervision ?

In applying for your FAC, the key requirement is good reason and the FEO will be a tad hesitant about allowing centrefire rifles initially - your land must be cleared for the calibre you ask for.

It would be easier to go for a .22/.17 HMR and a .223 (which can be used for Muntac and CWD within specified bullet weights and energy requirements) or explain that you would prefer only 2 rifles and go for the .243 as you suggest. Your FEO may suggest you need experience and/ or a mentor before he allows deer and a .223 is the universal fox calibre. However, I applied for a .308 for stalking and was conditioned to do 4 paid stalks to gain experience - this I did and I now have an open .308 with AOLQ. On balance a .243 with AOLQ as suggested above would be the logical course and hard to resist on the grounds of good reason. Talk to your FEO and explain your military experience and that Centrefires are not new to you just the quarry and since its principally Munjac, applying for a .243 rather than bigger calibre seemed most sensible and humane. Do a bit of research on the .243 ballistics before you chat to him and all should be good - maybe join a shooting org who will help in the event of problems.

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It appears you dont have a firearm certificate at present and use rifles under close supervision ?

In applying for your FAC, the key requirement is good reason and the FEO will be a tad hesitant about allowing centrefire rifles initially - your land must be cleared for the calibre you ask for.

It would be easier to go for a .22/.17 HMR and a .223 (which can be used for Muntac and CWD within specified bullet weights and energy requirements) or explain that you would prefer only 2 rifles and go for the .243 as you suggest. Your FEO may suggest you need experience and/ or a mentor before he allows deer and a .223 is the universal fox calibre. However, I applied for a .308 for stalking and was conditioned to do 4 paid stalks to gain experience - this I did and I now have an open .308 with AOLQ. On balance a .243 with AOLQ as suggested above would be the logical course and hard to resist on the grounds of good reason. Talk to your FEO and explain your military experience and that Centrefires are not new to you just the quarry and since its principally Munjac, applying for a .243 rather than bigger calibre seemed most sensible and humane. Do a bit of research on the .243 ballistics before you chat to him and all should be good - maybe join a shooting org who will help in the event of problems.

 

Thanks . Correct it was "close supervision"

The reasoning behind the choice of .243 was due to the fact that close friends and members of my shoot have 177 hmr and rimfire rifles . I was hoping to get the .243 as this would cover all of my bases and should I need to get some bunnies I could recruit a friend with the smaller calibres rather then filling my cabinet with guns that would rarely get used. The FAO will be know that I have hands on large calibre centre fire experience especially on the safety side of things. I can see the logic in making it a bit tricky to obtain the FAC to stop all the wollies getting their hands on them but its a tricky one when you have to persuade them that your an not one of the wollies :). I am more then confident in my ability and my respect for deer I just hope I don't have to pay a fortune to go on some paid stalking days :(

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I wouldn't emphasise the military side of your shooting as with all military it will have been either on military ranges under very strict rules indeed or live firing in places where the back stop isn't even considered ;-)

If you have foxes on the ground you already shoot then good advice has already been given reference the .243 and as you have friends that already own CF rifles then even if a mentor condition was imposed it seems as if that wouldn't be a problem.

Of course the easiest way would to book a few Stalks with someone that has an estate rifle.

I cannot advise in that respect as you do not state in your avator where you are in the country but I'm sure you could find someone after a quick look at the Stalking Directory site that specialises in Deer and other large quarry.

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I wouldn't emphasise the military side of your shooting as with all military it will have been either on military ranges under very strict rules indeed or live firing in places where the back stop isn't even considered ;-)

If you have foxes on the ground you already shoot then good advice has already been given reference the .243 and as you have friends that already own CF rifles then even if a mentor condition was imposed it seems as if that wouldn't be a problem.

Of course the easiest way would to book a few Stalks with someone that has an estate rifle.

I cannot advise in that respect as you do not state in your avator where you are in the country but I'm sure you could find someone after a quick look at the Stalking Directory site that specialises in Deer and other large quarry.

Thanks EMcC.

The military stuff is independent as my company have section 5 certification. All safety is done independently and is not on military soil.

None of said friends do deer stalking so that could be a pickle. I will have to look into paid shooting . I am very sympathetic in terms of safe back drops due to the use of the .22 and the horrendous whizzing ricochets you can get so. I fully appreciate .243 is more powerful but the principle still applies.

FYI i'm based in Hertfordshire , I think I will Google local estates.

Thanks for your help . Ill construct my case before I apply :)

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+1 for the stalking directory,75 quid will get u a paid stalk and no shot fee with a couple of good people on there.also just ask theres a few down your way who if u ask the question in return for a stalk on your land when cleared may do a swap day no money changes hands.youve got the hardest thing of all in stalking LAND and permission.its free to join and theres some very helpful peeps on there,but make sure you do an intro first as they like to know who theyre dealing with atb

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Its always a lottery with calibre variations, my constabulary had me jumping through hoops and though not a legal requirement told me I would have to do my DSC1 before I could have a .243. I had ground with Roe on it so I had good reason to get this calibre, if not they would not have let me have 243 for fox and munty's. This said I had little experience in shooting with deer, I'm glad I did my DSC1, followed by my DSC2 as it opened up new stalking opportunities, I'm now an AW for the deer management qualification system.

On the other hand I have a friend who has been on a few Croatian boar trips and a bit of paid hind culling in Scotland, its a bit of a lads thing and they do one or the other every year. He saw a 30.06 straight pull he took a fancy too and purchased it, I thought he was mad as he didn't have an FAC (obviously he couldn't take it from the shop). He applied for his first every FAC with this calibre with a few receipts and letters from his more experienced mates and hey presto.

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If you have deerstalking consent go for it. don't listen to unofficial refusals, don't give them space to wriggle on the application just put .243 win for deerstalking of all uk deer and fox control. nothing smaller meets the criteria. The fact you have done level one means squat as regards safety same with level 2 they just use it as an excuse (encouraged by the main training providers no doubt)

To be fair even simple skill at arms military training is a better qual IMO in regards to public safety, no gripes I have level 1 and 2 but they mean little compared to experience in the field with smaller stuff and military experience.

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Each Feo will have his own thoughts. Make sure his manager agrees, by questioning his decision in a considerate way.

My stalking cost me £70 per stalk or £280 for a .308 - well worth it. Just remember, being a safe shot is absolutely everything - convince your feo you are, and be one, and the world will be your oyster.

If i can help, let me know.

regards,

Kes.

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Thanks guys .

£70 pounds isnt bad at all for a day shooting . Far cheaper then pheasant !

 

Do you know what to do once you've shot the deer?

I have experience and know how to gralloch muntjac but have never had to do it with a fallow. I have done a fair bit of research that indicates that it is very similar just bigger I have a big old drinks fridge adapted to hang game and muntjac in my garage. Its about 7ft tall so should be able to fit a fallow in with a bit of persuasion .

Thanks for all of your help guys I definitely feel more prepared for any of the obstacles already.

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Do you know what to do once you've shot the deer?

 

You know that don't matter if the guy is accompanied by the stalker and although I see it as an important thing to learn for food chain reasons it should have no bearing at all on the guy being granted a .243 win. He could after all stalk Munties and chinks in England and Roe in Scotland with .222 rem upwards

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  • 2 weeks later...

Do you know what to do once you've shot the deer?

 

not arguing with you but... having a DSC1 doesn't mean you do either

further confirms why FEO asking for DSC1 before granting deer legal calibre is a joke!

 

OP go for it

cover all angles with well thought out justification

 

post on here if any questions BEFORE you apply

 

I make sure any application or variation has all the details and a covering letter when I send it

make the FEO's job easy and it will go upstairs for signature

 

give him room for questions and it will sit on his desk until he has dealt with all the easy stuff!

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not arguing with you but... having a DSC1 doesn't mean you do either

further confirms why FEO asking for DSC1 before granting deer legal calibre is a joke!

 

OP go for it

cover all angles with well thought out justification

 

post on here if any questions BEFORE you apply

 

I make sure any application or variation has all the details and a covering letter when I send it

make the FEO's job easy and it will go upstairs for signature

 

give him room for questions and it will sit on his desk until he has dealt with all the easy stuff!

Yes your right but some courses will demonstrate a grallock on a cull animal though not guaranteed. What DSC1 does give you is a basic knowledge of the law regarding shooting deer, were to place a shot, what to look for in regard to disease, what to do when you have pulled the trigger...... the list goes on. There are those that just see the DSC1 as a money making venture f but I mostly hear from the ones that take the DSC1 that its value for money and very worthwhile. The ones that normally dis the course are the ones who haven't taken it, maybe in the fear of failure. There are those that seriously want to hunt deer with the resource's to do so and those that just want a 243 and that is probably more to the truth of DSC1 arguements.

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Herts will depend a fair bit on where you are and which feo you get. When I was in East Herts dsc1 was enough but when I moved back to north Herts I needed dsc1 and then still got a mentoring condition despite years with a .223 and hmr. That said I know people who have avoided both so get some experience first and then apply as that gives the most chance of a simple grant.

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