Pushkin Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Hi, recently visited an old friend and he was showing me his new heating system (does the hot water etc as well as radiators) There are good incentives to buy and fit one of these and also it gives a good return for the fuel (wood pellets) used. It also puts out a fair bit of heat just ticking over on the basic minimum fuel required. So far he has used little fuel since June (but it has been warm anyway!) and the cost of fuel is not great compared to the coal fired system we have at present. Any one have one and can give some pointers about them? Regards Pushkin:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 I know a mate who has a big old place and moved from Oil and is saving a bomb but against coal? not so sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushkin Posted October 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 Cheers Keg. Aye going by the numbers I came up with for the year past - should still represent a very good reduction overall - but not as you say as for oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 We have a very large one at work. The saving over using oil is huge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 An ex colleague of mine does a lot of work in this market, he is based in Bo'ness. If you want his details send me a PM Pushkin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 (edited) The efficiency is related to the cost of fuel and while Biomass fuel is cost effective currently it wont always be the case. The initial outlay for a biomass stove or boiler is very high and unless you have storage for buying large quantities of fuel in a cost effective load then you might be better investing in better insulation for your home. On all of the heat loss and efficiency calculations I've done in the last 3 or 4 years comparing the various heat sources and running costs/efficiency on average domestic properties biomass has always scored poorly..this is because its financial outlay is more suited to commercial property rather than domestic. If you are serious in considering biomass make sure you pay for an independent to do a proper appraisal of the various heat sources available and their efficiency related to your property or you might just be sending money up the chimney...literally. Contact the energy saving trust also. Make sure you are sat down and have oxygen at hand when you get the installation quote. Edited October 26, 2014 by Fisherman Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 +1 as above spot on. I looked at it and the purchase and installation cost is eye watering. Commercial payback on green energy tariffs are fantastic but domestic is a chunk lower. Figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 I've just been involved in the periphery of a couple of bio mass installations and from what I can gather for commercial operations it's all about the subsidies you get for using it. Burn more and create more heat and you get paid more for it. The systems seem to be regulated by two thermostats and I've heard of folk putting the second thermostat in a bucket of water to keep the boiler running at full tilt to generate more income. Sounds crazy to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 The efficiency is related to the cost of fuel and while Biomass fuel is cost effective currently it wont always be the case. The initial outlay for a biomass stove or boiler is very high and unless you have storage for buying large quantities of fuel in a cost effective load then you might be better investing in better insulation for your home. On all of the heat loss and efficiency calculations I've done in the last 3 or 4 years comparing the various heat sources and running costs/efficiency on average domestic properties biomass has always scored poorly..this is because its financial outlay is more suited to commercial property rather than domestic. If you are serious in considering biomass make sure you pay for an independent to do a proper appraisal of the various heat sources available and their efficiency related to your property or you might just be sending money up the chimney...literally. Contact the energy saving trust also. Make sure you are sat down and have oxygen at hand when you get the installation quote. I looked at it quite recently for a 40 KW installation. You need lots of space to store the fuel (if you buy small loads, the costs off delivery are high), it need to run 24 hours a day, with pumps running all that time, so uses a significant amount more electricity compared to an 'on when needed' system and who is to say what the fuel pellet costs will be longer term. A full 'self stoking' installation is seriously expensive, and they are relatively unproven in domestic sizes - hence long term reliability has to be a bit of an unknown. I suspect that in 5 years + there may be some BIG replacement bills for parts in the stoker ....... assuming you can still get the parts and the firm who made it are still in business. My conclusion was that for big (as in 100 KW plus) houses with local pellet sources - or better still biomass from an estate (as opposed to a merchant) and where heat is needed 24 hours a day, then it may well save in the long run - IF not too much goes wrong. For more modest demands (my house requires a new 40 KW boiler this year) and where the house can be cool much of the day (at work) - and where the storage of a years supply of pellets adjacent to a boiler house isn't easy, I just couldn't see any savings over mains gas - and the installation (for me space near the boiler room is short) was both difficult and expensive. What fuel price movements and subsidies may come/go in the future, who can tell. One thing I will say with certainty - if it ever does look as being a very cheap way, some slimy politician will tax it to make it not much different to other fuels. I have opted for condensing mains gas, and additional insulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 I have overseen the commissioning and after sales service (year 1) on a number of these over the last few years at small commercial size. All but the pelletised systems rapidly failed with non specialist users. The pellet version when using a hopper and worm feed was the best closely followed by hopper and gravity. The flake systems in particular were constantly jamming as the users did not keep the fuel totally dry - in fact one council (at a school) tried to use chipped prunings that were only left for a few weeks. Jammed on a weekly basis but they could not or would not see that it was their own fault until viewed by an independent specialist. Muppets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushkin Posted October 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 Guys thanks for your replies. I have the space to store the pellets and we're currently updating all the roof space insulation - the walls are already up to and beyond spec. The RHI payback quarterly is good too. I'm just stuck between it being a no brainer or should I look to get gas installed in the property? (It still pretty dear to have done as Gas has not been in our area for that long. GRr pm sent. Regards All. B) Pushkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Get gas it makes more sense in the long run. Cleaner cheaper to install, you can buy a lot of gas for the extra cost of a bio mass boiler install. Get it worked out for you then make your choice. In future when the governments have changed and the rhi payments are still around or gone you can allways change then. I'm in a self build house and could have gone either way, I chose gas along with the others who built in our close of four houses. Fella I work with has gone biomass due to no mains gas where he lives. Said if the pellets get damp they swell a huge amount and can be a problem. Domestic set up and around £13.000 up and running. Figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Sorry if i wasn't clear i meant he was saving a fortune against his oil bill. He has a ten ton hopper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Ten ton hopper,£2.000 a time to fill. Roughly 15 ton per year for average use. Figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Sounds about right, he has an indoor pool as well so that's where most of the cost is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 I've been lookin into this as well, 1 off the salesmen actually said u'd be crazy to install RHI boimass if ur on mains gas. And know an older couple who built there own log burner system, when he was a bit ill they turned the lpg gas on instead and reckon there was very little difference in wot it cost them to heat the house but didnae have all the extra work. If u look n some of these sites they pretty much all say the same ignore the rhi and see if cheaper as high outlay. Basically u shouldn't be going in just for the rhi payments. The commercial rates are expected to be cut shortly by about 20%, also if price of pellets rises will be little profit in them If u go for a pellet feed, u will be fairly reliant on pellet supplies if they all put price up u wil have no choice, depending how many in ur area I have been quoted 12-15k just for a 25kw boiler and tank for a 2 bed house i'm renovating, crazy money Depending wot plumbing u have already u could possibly add a log burner in either just to heat ur room or possibly to heat ur water too if it suits ur system? U can buy a more normal log burner for 1k+ depending on size/style. But then again if ur buying all ur logs in may not be that much cheaper either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutiny Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 1 off the salesmen actually said u'd be crazy to install RHI boimass if ur on mains gas. I agree! Natural gas appliances are fit and forget bar the annual servicing. The RHI payments are made to cover costs like servicing and replacement of parts - you're making money as long as your appliance is working, if it breaks down or fails due to poor installation the repair bill will eat right into those RHI payments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushkin Posted October 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Great stuff lads - keep it coming please. Pushkin. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strongski Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Have a look a greener group Web site we have a 200kw at work the muts nuts that do smaller for the home tell them stuart from hhp told you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.