HDAV Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 The Police Commissioner being interviewed on the BBC this afternoon threw into the discussion the true cost of issuing a Firearm/Shotgun licence as £200+. Then helpfully added that the general public (taxes) are subsidising the shooting fraternity. Here we go again. Look at it another way they are paying for a service that failed.....NO subsidy! What about all the drink drivers killing people? In the last 30 years road casualties caused by drink driving have fallen dramatically, but in 2011, there were still 230 deaths due to drink driving – accounting for 12% of all road fatalities. By drinking and driving, you risk your life, those of your passengers and others on the road. In the United Kingdom, annual deaths resulting from firearms total 2011: 146 20 20 hindsight is one thing... 20 20 foresight is what they need. Davyo and those promoting zero tolerance, well once you have a malicious complaint made against you something impossible to prove either way then what? How many lives have been saved by revocations? No one knows, No one can even guess......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Ok, there is a bit more to this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11196332/Police-gave-puppy-farm-murderer-John-Lowe-his-shotguns-back-despite-claims-he-hired-hitman.html "A police force returned seven shotguns to a man who went on to kill two women, despite being aware of claims he had previously tried to hire a hitman to kill his partner." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Trouble is its claims, hearsay and intelligence not criminal offences or solid evidence. If an ex partner made up allegations about you would you be happy if the police seized you guns to be on the safe side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 The Police are damned if they do and damned if they dont! Only one person is to blame here, the man who pulled the trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 The Police are damned if they do and damned if they dont! Only one person is to blame here, the man who pulled the trigger. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think the knee-jerk result of this will be that in the future anyone who had their guns taken away for whatever reason will probably have to go to court to get them back, and even then it will be an uphill battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 How many times do we have to point out to the police, politicians and non-shooting public that whenever there is a shooting by licenced gun owners it is almost always accompanied by police failure (Hungerford, Dunblane, Whithaven and now this) so why do we pay for a licence? It serves no purpose for us only to reassure the public so it should be the general public who pay not us! BASC etc should be campaigning for £NIL fees not supporting an increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 The Police are damned if they do and damned if they don't...His guns were removed and his licence revoked after a report,I believe by his daughter that he had made threats to kill.This report was then rescinded by the complainant,ie withdrawn...Now of course the police would/should have dug deeper to find the circumstances and make an informed view etc but as you need to show a reason why NOT with a shotgun license grant where did they stand legally?A withdrawn complaint??..Very difficult,and it was only after the event he said ''he wanted them put down'' etc that we learn he was off his rocker...terribly sad and a pretty rare tragedy where a legally held gun was used. Do I am blame the police?No,had the daughter not withdrawn what appears a totally valid report he would not have got his guns back. I guess we shall never know the detail of the reports and the renewal meeting but knee jerk reactions and cheap politics is always what follows an event like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 A tragic end for two people and obviously there is sympathy for the family.however we do not know what led to this was there a history of domestic violence. Did the police have a list of call outs to this home.we're the mother and daughters blameless. We will never know now.as has been said if the report that led to his gun being removed was withdrawn and in the absence of any previous concerns I think we would all say the guns should be returned.hindsight is wonderfully indeed. And we should also keep it in perspective this publicity is the second bite of the newspapers cherry as we had all these rantings about banning guns and tightening regulations when this incident first took place.we should not be to quick to blame the police after all how many of us have never misjudged a situation before or made a decision that later turned out to be the wrong one.as we roll into another election year we are going to get lots of noise made by all parties but let's not run for the hills just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Some people have posted that they think this is going to become another political football. However, I note that, according to the media reports, 3 police staff have been suspended and possibly facing gross misconduct proceedings. The decision to hand him back his SGC and guns appears to have been flawed, to say the least. I don't see the political football happening - unless Surrey police attempt to do it, which doesn't look likely, considering they're aleady apologising for letting him have the guns back, so they're accepting a lot of blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I don't see the political football happening - unless Surrey police attempt to do it, which doesn't look likely, considering they're aleady apologising for letting him have the guns back, so they're accepting a lot of blame. What could happen though is the 'guidance' changes with regards to returning firearms. If you were a cop now, would you take the risk of returning under any circumstances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Radio 2 are doing a feature on this story right now.I hope there wont be any knee jerk reactions to this awful incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Heard a bit of the R2 segment most seem to think 7 guns were the issue which is irrelevant to the proceedings. Does anyone know if he always farmed puppies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Yeah 7 guns really doesnt have anything to do with it at all.Was good to hear the policeman commenting that gun laws are tight enough already and are too complicated but my ears really pricked up when he basically admitted that dunblaine happened because of police not doing their job properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Yeah 7 guns really doesnt have anything to do with it at all.Was good to hear the policeman commenting that gun laws are tight enough already and are too complicated but my ears really pricked up when he basically admitted that dunblaine happened because of police not doing their job properly. Read all about it http://www.tes.co.uk/teaching-resource/Police-lost-key-files-on-Dunblane-killer-106099/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) Shocking report HDAV.absolutely shocking.youd think heads would roll and it would be all over the papers. Edited October 30, 2014 by deadeye18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 We just have to make sure that we speak up and that the agenda is not being driven forward by hysteria and by raising the license fee. How would a higher license fee have stopped this man doing the same thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 We just have to make sure that we speak up and that the agenda is not being driven forward by hysteria and by raising the license fee. How would a higher license fee have stopped this man doing the same thing? +1 on that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) Shocking report HDAV.absolutely shocking.youd think heads would roll and it would be all over the papers. See: http://stolenkids-dunblane.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/irregularities-at-queen-victoria-school.html Edited October 30, 2014 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 And if that's not enough: http://thescum.info/category/dunblane/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Yes it is good that Mick North is asking questions however let's not forget that he is part of the GCN. The questions asked would be how can we ban guns even further and to use this opportunity to infringe even more on people's rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I always believed as I am sure do a lot of others that the whole tragic episode of Dunblane resulted from massive institutional complicity by way of either, unimaginable incompetence and/or collusion or worse by some in positions of authority to allow Thomas Hamilton access to firearms. This complicity continued in order to protect the authorities from severe criticism from the public, the press and the wrath of the families of the victims, in the form of the ‘Cullen Report’ together with the ‘Hundred Year Rule’ locking the files. Whilst the misdirection of blame was intentionally laid squarely on the shoulders of the ‘Shooting Community’, the perfect ‘Scapegoat’ and so it has proved, until now. What next I wonder, I believe that the whole truth still has not been, and after all this time probably never will be revealed and that no remedial action will be forthcoming to rectify a great wrong that has continued to affect such a very large section of the shooting community. The thing as I see it is this, the ‘Shooting Community’ continues to be punished by way of stricter controls and limitations on our activities, together with much greater scrutiny from the authorities whilst the police are still seemingly making similar basic errors of judgement/communication that lead to the same tragic consequences as demonstrated by the OP! No evidence of a conspiracy, ‘In a Pig’s Eye’!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I see the mp for derby has reared his stupid ignorant head and is calling for all private ownership of firearms to end.the bbc will be lapping this up.and we'll be screwed if ALL shooters arent screaming from the same hymn sheet and sticking up for ourselves.WYMBERLEY those threads were an eye opening read.STOTTO i agree with everything you just said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I see the mp for derby has reared his stupid ignorant head and is calling for all private ownership of firearms to end.the bbc will be lapping this up.and we'll be screwed if ALL shooters arent screaming from the same hymn sheet and sticking up for ourselves.WYMBERLEY those threads were an eye opening read.STOTTO i agree with everything you just said. This muppet got in on a majority of 613 (1.4%). Hopefully he will be gone next year. He appears to be an animal rights activist too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 The ultimate anti then!all shooting organisations need to use the same tactics as the press/government/police and start diverting and deflecting all this negativity about gun owners back to where it belongs with the scum that commited the crime and the system that allowed it.OUR commumity needs to be vocal and visible for who we are too as the public perception of us is all wrong,they need to see the young the old,all ages,the wealthy the average joe family man with the average jobs and those in uniform,people from all walks of life that all participate in every discipline of shooting there is.maybe if the average man,woman on the street realised that were just like them as well as disciplined and trustworty there might not be as much fear through ignorance of a minority group like us.just a thought hope it came across right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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