Rupert10 Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 As per title. Recommendations regarding breeders-working lines-pedigrees-what to look for as well as what to avoid. Regards. Rup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee-kinsman Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Be prepared to be told all sorts of things, but I'll kick it off. Is this your first dog? What are your plans? I look for a dog with a good proportion of FTCH/FTW in the pedigree (that is field trial champions listed in red on the pedigree and field trial winners). Alot on here will say your asking for trouble with lots of red because you get hot dogs (this means difficult to handle). I've never yet found this to be the case. In fact quite the opposite actually those with no competitive history are in my opinion more likely to be unpredictable in traits such as head strong, hard mouthed, lacking trainability, noisey. A field trialing dog has proven that it can be taught and trained to a high standard and be consistant in it's work. I do picking up on different shoots and I can only think of one or two people that I would happily take a dog from because there dogs are well trained and good at the job and yes they are trialing folk and the dogs have trialing pedigrees. However there are many in the beating lines who's dogs are poorly trained and don't have a Field Trialing pedigrees. Granted the standard of the dog work is more likely as a result of the trainer however people who want good and aim to achieve good don't just buy any pup they are specific about proven breeding and backgrounds 'on contrare' the people on the shoot who's dogs are poorly trained also have dogs with pedigrees that aren't field trial champion lines and don't expect much from there dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert10 Posted November 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Any preferences regarding breed line. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) Masses of good names to look for: (that I like, anyway) Edwardiana (tend to be extremely hard hunting and not always for the inexperienced) Boundarymoor (stylish, biddable) Hollydrive (avoid Kurt if poss if intending to breed to anything other than health tested) Helmsway *highly recommended* Cowarnecourt Countryways (cracking allrounders) Samsir Rosebay Clarburgh Art (but those with a lot of Art can be soft) Tynywaun Rytex Badgercourt (usually to be found 3 or more generations back in a pedigree - can be hard headed lol but hellish good hunters) Larford Saturn Spirit (very hard hunting generally\) Buccleuch (although offspring by Pepper can be soft) There are tons of good names out there, can't think of them all! Edited November 7, 2014 by bigbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert10 Posted November 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 One has led a very sheltered life! Here was me expecting to get an answer like " Black & white" or "Chocolate & white" Preference would be given to the "Hard hunting" side so I can discount quite a few of those names from my thoughts. Thank you for the extensive list. Now quite a bit shorter. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Lol hope it helped! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millomite Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Only one choice for me. Helmsway bred Chinaghcook or Dawsonlee after that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 That's who I forgot! Dawsonlee! Think I'm going to possibly use Chance on my bitch in the future. Chinachgook also very hard hunting, I have one but ones by C. Roberto can be soft so just be aware Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 I guess you lack experience if you're asking advice. Nothing wrong in that - better to ask before you take the plunge and buy. I'm on my first springer; a Hollydrive dog, both parents FTCh . He's as soft as they come but hard hunting and can easily get away from me if I'm not careful when he starts hunting out of sight in the rough. Yes, I know it's my inexperience but I see a lot of people in the same position on shoots. I've not yet heard a keeper moan about a dog being too steady - only shouting about the ones that hunt off into the next drive. It's a lot more relaxing and enjoyable when working a dog that naturally sticks closer. Whatever you decide, good luck and enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert10 Posted November 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Thank you. I will need plenty luck. Is there ever any good lines advertised on PW? Quick search uncovered very little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 I've sent you a pm, Rupert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Don't get hung up on "lines". IMO there are very few true lines but plenty of good dogs, good breeders and good kennels to source pups from. Look for trial awards in the recent ancestry and try and see both sire and dam, there is a good chance your pup will turn out like one or the other so if you like them both you're quids in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert10 Posted November 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Going to look at a puppy on Sunday so will keep ya all up to speed. Thanks for the PM's full of help and offers. This time next week - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Looking forward to new puppy photos. Will keep my fingers crossed for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazbev Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Ryobi gundogs have just had a litter,I've heard good things about his dogs and know someone who is having one. I'm like Brodie I have my first dog out of Hollydrive Theo and he's a smart dog of 5 months old,really just hammering the recall home but I've been on my toes this morning running after him today, once he finds scent in cover he is off. He's a hard hunter and so ( too) quick already but not nuts like some I have seen,he wants to get things right it's just taking me a long time to show him what he has to do to get it right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Oh, and Tagkai - his stuff is nearly all health tested too - he has a stud dog by H Kurt who is health tested PRA clear as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker boy Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Most of the dogs mentioned have the same background yet some of them are disregarded for being too hard/soft ?. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Just because someone buys in a dog and puts their own kennel name on the end of the pedigree name does not make it a line. People now get a website, buy in a dog, add "@ fancy kennel name" and its suddenly a line?. Crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert10 Posted November 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Ok. To put it another way. I'm looking for a line that has not been diluted with mediocrity and from a breeder that has used common sense and experience rather than the "@ fancy name" scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren m Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Ok. To put it another way. I'm looking for a line that has not been diluted with mediocrity and from a breeder that has used common sense and experience rather than the "@ fancy name" scenario. spirecourt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 My list included breeders as well as established lines. If you know what you want and what you don't want, you've a better chance of getting what you want by going for tried and tested rather than taking a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker boy Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Ok. To put it another way. I'm looking for a line that has not been diluted with mediocrity and from a breeder that has used common sense and experience rather than the "@ fancy name" scenario. I look at things like this. If I wanted f1 driving lessons I would want the off Schumacher. If I wanted golf lessons I would want them off tiger woods.Shooting lesson I would want off George digweed. On that footing I would want a spaniel from the best spaniel kennel in the UK. And that ain't hard to fathom out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 But not all kennels are the same! Whilst Opie can deal with any dog thrown at him, the average novice trainer may not. His stuff may be too hot for most non triallers for example - who wants a work / pet dog that spends it's time pinging round the house and driving everybody nuts whilst it's not working? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert10 Posted November 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Quite. Tried and tested over a period of time. Generations. The Kennel Club affix is of little relevance to me. It serves only as a tool to trace family history.The problem I have is with identifying a decent line of dogs/bitches from names only. Therefore, a reputable 'line', with a reputable proven track record regarding quality, is all I can ask for.The answer to the question has been a number of names but without any kind of explanation as to why or how. Is there anything at all worth noting when viewing a 'working line' pedigree apart from the obvious black named dogs and red named dogs that might shed a little more light? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert10 Posted November 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 I look at things like this. If I wanted f1 driving lessons I would want the off Schumacher. If I wanted golf lessons I would want them off tiger woods.Shooting lesson I would want off George digweed. On that footing I would want a spaniel from the best spaniel kennel in the UK. And that ain't hard to fathom out. So it's the Hollydrive then as mentioned numerous times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert10 Posted November 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Anyway,thank you all so much for your very kind help. Notes made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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