Albert 888 Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) Go on then 22rf for vermin control. Open 223 for fox's and any other lawful quarry.open 308 for deer stalking,any other lawful quarry closed. Fox is a Vermin species and a other lawful quarry but when i asked for fox,goat,boar and sheep I got told no on the 308.:-o Is fox vermin and a lawful quarry? My understanding is no law that states a minimum or maximum calibre for fox that I know of,is it not upto the shooter to decide,untill a law is actually passed and not these stupid guidelines. 5 shots through the same hole with a 22 lr on a bench indoors with ammo matched to the rifle at 25yrds is extremely possible, I personally nearly sold mine as I could get hold of my rifles prefeed ammo,in hunting conditions anything can happen,but a 10p size group at 50 yards should be achievable most of the time. Edited November 20, 2014 by Albert 888 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) I can understand them not wanting to let people shoot fox witha .22lr but dont let the man have a 243 and tell him he cant go out and use it on Fox only on a range mabe he should trap it and shoot it with his 243 on the range driv me mad they do I was going to put down a .17hmr but after my friends experience with the same feo it would have been pointless. So I put down a .22lr as I knew he would okay it, although even with that he wanted me to have experience, which I do, yet didn't with my friend who shoots the same land and has less experience two weeks before! But I also put down a .243, the land is cleared for that calibre and I have permission to shoot. And I regularly see foxes and Roe deer which the farmer wants shot. But he put down the .243 as target only unless I get someone to take me out and let me shoot their gun and then get them to sign to say they did that. And that in itself is potentially illegal! Madness! Edited November 20, 2014 by srspower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moorvale55 Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 It is madness, here in Staffordshire the .22lr, and .17hmr were all cleared for vermin, AOLQ and Fox, the .223 was upgraded to .243 with the inclusion of deer stalking, no questions asked, certificate back within 3 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 i wasnt going to bother with any more posts on the subject , but i feel that as my word and my shooting ability have been called into question i should clarify things. ive been shooting pretty much every firearm you can imagine for almost 40 years so im not exactly a newbie to shooting/fieldsports. i do my best to make every shot count , i never pull the trigger with the expectation that ill miss , i do miss sometimes and its usually down to me wrongly estimating ranges(with .22lr) and on pieces of land that i dont shoot as regularly and im not quite as familiar with. my preference (when using .22lr or .243) is always to shoot from the prone position and using a bi pod , this quite often isnt possible when hunting but is always my preference when possible. with my cz 452 american .22lr using my much loved eley subs and shooting from a bi pod at 50 yards , i would expect a one hole group over a five shot string , it may be a ragged hole but it will be one hole. as im getting older , i tend not to shoot off hand as much , however , i will still happily take head shots on rabbits out to 40/50 yards whilst shooting off hand. i will also happily use my .22lr past 100 yards despite the fact that a lot of shooters will tell you that its not possible(i know its possible because ive been doing it every week for years). i will add that over the last six months or so , ive been unable to get supplies of eley subs , ive tried several different types of ammo but nothing comes close in terms of accuracy , ive been limiting my ranges with the different types of ammo but im still quite happy taking rabbits at sub 100 yards. both myself and my feo are happy for me to head shoot foxes at sub 50 yards with my .22lr , i shall carry on doing it until he instructs me to stop or until i feel that i am not capable , i do not sit and talk about the theory , i go out and do it , that makes any theory worthless ! , i see it , the guys that shoot with me see it , i see the guys that i shoot with do it , if any other shooter is incapable of doing it , it is their problem and not mine , they have a choice to either practice until they can do it or dont bother trying , just dont whine on about it. i should also add , my ability with a shotgun isnt great (compared to many that i shoot with)im happy to take pigeon out to 30 yards but i dont push my shooting beyond that , having said that , i shoot with several guys that will push it a lot further , their shotgun ability is greater than mine and i really admire their skill , i dont whine at them and tell them that it cant be done. and finally , im not one for keeping records so im not spot on with my figures , over the last ten years ive probably shot around two hundred ish foxes , im guessing that ten of those were taken with the .243(out to 200yards) and ten of them were taken with the shotgun(out to 30yards) , the rest were taken with the .22lr and taking headshots at sub 50yards (normally while out shooting rabbits). mel Local plod has no idea what calibres do what. Feo's read from a book. I take whatever shot I'm comfortable with my .22lr and soon to be aquired .17 hmr. Mel, You have pretty much written what I would so you have saved my fingers and the second post is about right also. I have shot for about 46 years and have shot more than I can remember. Most feo’s don’t know one end from the other and just blagg their way through the time that they do the job until they are offloaded into retirement. One asked me “ Is that one of those hornet things”, when I applied for a 22-centre fire and another was going round telling everyone that they had to enter onto their certificate all rounds that they reloaded. Apparently he was called into HQ and the situation was clarified with him. He is no longer on the road and was offloaded soon after that event. I certainly do not take or accept random conditions without making them prove that they are correct. They do not like having to spend funds to defend their actions that are obviously incorrect. PS. It is only in recent years that 22 centre fires have become common as fox calibres. If you had a 22rf, that was considered a powerful rifle and more than capable which it is, as I have used it for more fox than my 223 or 243. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belly47 Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 im in kent and my licence has fox for .22 and .17 hmr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) Hit the nail on the head :good:show that to your FAO Edited November 21, 2014 by Rim Fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 If u go back 20-30 years 22lr would be the main foxing rifle, they were the days before 22cf's became common and no mods on cf rifles either, so ur next rifle up was a .243 un moderated. There is no doubt a 22lr is up to the job at certain ranges esp wit HV bullets If u have a try with HV bullets ur fairly uping the power/velocity of the bullet and there is no reason u should not take foxes well past ur 50m, if ur a capable shot. I know 1 local boy who runs a shoot and only had a 22lr for years and years and used it purely for foxes and said he never needed 'more gun', but he is very experienced and as crafty as an old fox himself, so had good field craft to get him into to accurate ranges and knew when to leave a fox for next time To be fair he just got a couple of centre fire rifles recently and does say it makes a massive difference, but he still often chooses his 22 over his 243 for foxing If i'm honest u will probably get more clean kills witha 22lr at shorter ranges than u will shooting other calibre's at these long ranges that many folk boast about. All about knowing ur rife and its/your limitations and esp with foxes do not pull the triger unless ur 100% certain u have it, missing foxes only creates lamp shy ones far better to let it pass and get it another time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 If u go back 20-30 years 22lr would be the main foxing rifle, they were the days before 22cf's became common and no mods on cf rifles either, so ur next rifle up was a .243 un moderated. There is no doubt a 22lr is up to the job at certain ranges esp wit HV bullets If u have a try with HV bullets ur fairly uping the power/velocity of the bullet and there is no reason u should not take foxes well past ur 50m, if ur a capable shot. I know 1 local boy who runs a shoot and only had a 22lr for years and years and used it purely for foxes and said he never needed 'more gun', but he is very experienced and as crafty as an old fox himself, so had good field craft to get him into to accurate ranges and knew when to leave a fox for next time To be fair he just got a couple of centre fire rifles recently and does say it makes a massive difference, but he still often chooses his 22 over his 243 for foxing If i'm honest u will probably get more clean kills witha 22lr at shorter ranges than u will shooting other calibre's at these long ranges that many folk boast about. All about knowing ur rife and its/your limitations and esp with foxes do not pull the triger unless ur 100% certain u have it, missing foxes only creates lamp shy ones far better to let it pass and get it another time Well said . Great post . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel b3 Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) Morning gents, ive just looked back at my post, it looks like a was having a dig at colin, i wasnt so apologies to colin if it seemed that way mate. The point that i was making was that a.22lr is a fantastically versatile tool and more than enough gun for fox given the right conditions. Ive been very lucky when it comes to my feo, ive had a couple and theyve been shooters with quite a lot of knowledge of the sport, theyve also been helpful and pleasant and very easy to rub along with which is always a good thing. Edited November 21, 2014 by mel b3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 no need to apologise no offence taken, that's the point of an open forum lots of people with different views wouldn't be much fun if we all saw things the same way, i was not having a pop at your ability it was just your comment seemed a bit much, to put 5 shots through the same hole is some shooting probably world class, which came across as we shouldn't shoot at vermin unless it can be done, but as you later said you shoot a ragged whole, a ragged hole is a different thing as like you i am sure there are a few competent shots on here who could manage ragged holes, but to put 5 shots through the one hole especially out shooting vermin well enough said, colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 This topic goes round and round, it fine using a .22lr on a fox if you are sensible, and you can shoot it anywhere you like, if you are sensible. Despite what some regions may suggest/condition, foxes fall down easily with a .22lr and subs if you do your part! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belly47 Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 This topic goes round and round, it fine using a .22lr on a fox if you are sensible, and you can shoot it anywhere you like, if you are sensible. Despite what some regions may suggest/condition, foxes fall down easily with a .22lr and subs if you do your part! Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 I was going to put down a .17hmr but after my friends experience with the same feo it would have been pointless. So I put down a .22lr as I knew he would okay it, although even with that he wanted me to have experience, which I do, yet didn't with my friend who shoots the same land and has less experience two weeks before! But I also put down a .243, the land is cleared for that calibre and I have permission to shoot. And I regularly see foxes and Roe deer which the farmer wants shot. But he put down the .243 as target only unless I get someone to take me out and let me shoot their gun and then get them to sign to say they did that. And that in itself is potentially illegal! Madness! Go and do a dsc1 course and get it changed..... no point in having the .243 in the cabernet....It will cost you under a £1.00 a day for year.... Then off you go................You tube deer.............!!! TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordieh Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 you cant shoot a fox with a 22 in its body hasn't got the power but headshot work well there classed has vermin this should clear it up for u http://forums.shootinguk.co.uk/showthread.php?4174-It-s-legal-to-shoot-fox-with-a-22-rimfire Of course you can I have been doing it for the last 30 years they have been known to kill bears and deer so a fox weighing 15lbs should be no problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert 888 Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 What fps is a 40g 224 bullet doing at 300-400yrds shot from say a 222 or 223 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 What fps is a 40g 224 bullet doing at 300-400yrds shot from say a 222 or 223 ? I don't have a table for 40gr, but for 55 gr, 223, from a 600mm barrel the RWS data table reads as follows : Distance (yards) : velocity (fps) 0 : 3314 50 : 3127 100 : 2949 150 : 2778 200 : 2613 250 : 2454 300 : 2300 At 300 yards, energy is listed as 653 ft.lbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert 888 Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 I don't have a table for 40gr, but for 55 gr, 223, from a 600mm barrel the RWS data table reads as follows : Distance (yards) : velocity (fps) 0 : 3314 50 : 3127 100 : 2949 150 : 2778 200 : 2613 250 : 2454 300 : 2300 At 300 yards, energy is listed as 653 ft.lbs Thanks for the info, just seeing what the difference is of a 223 at 400yrds and a 22lr is at 50yrds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Thanks for the info, just seeing what the difference is of a 223 at 400yrds and a 22lr is at 50yrds There are many tables available, this may be interesting to you! http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/ballistics/2014-Standard-Ballistics.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) 45 Mtrs straight into the chest head on,dropped on the spot.wouldn't shoot beyond that,this is the 3rd fox I've had this year while out after rabbits with the rimmy.Only commit to the shot if it's under 50 mtr & I can place a heart lung shot.Only shot 1in the Barnet but within 20 mtre Edited December 5, 2014 by Davyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew f Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khrJwZLOn6s watch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 (edited) I am old enough to remember when foxes were only ever shot with a .22. Its only in recent years that foxing has become a seperate sport using rifles like .223 etc. Before then it was just 'farmers business' and nobody would ever query why you would want to use a .22 on a fox. The idea that somebody would go out and spend a grand on a rifle to shoot charlie would have been the talk of the village pub for weeks! You can shoot them easily enough but it requires a bit of field craft to set up the shot, and range is limited. Here is what I was told as a boy by my uncle who must have shot hundreds. Dont heart shoot from the side because the shoulder knuckle and front leg can deflect the bullet. Heart shoot from the front but the heart is lower than you think, and its likely going to run even if the shot is perfect.. Head shoot from the side aiming just below the ear. Strangely enough, the original post reported something that I was told as a lad but have repeated on here in the past and been told its utter rubbish. What I was told was not to aim between its eyes because its sloping forehead is too slight an angle, its like a ramp. So if the shot goes a bit high the bullet will be inclined to deflect rather than penetrate the skull. Richocet off effectively, and we all know how easily a .22 can do that. I think thats what the OP's FEO meant about shots bouncing off a fox's head Last time I said that on here I had howls of laughter from the experts. Its marginal really as to whether a .22 is really up to cleanly dispatching a fox. Years ago nobody really cared. I have my doubts today but not about the .22, I would have more doubts about the ability of the shooters. Edited December 7, 2014 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 I am old enough to remember when foxes were only ever shot with a .22. Its only in recent years that foxing has become a seperate sport using rifles like .223 etc. Before then it was just 'farmers business' and nobody would ever query why you would want to use a .22 on a fox. The idea that somebody would go out and spend a grand on a rifle to shoot charlie would have been the talk of the village pub for weeks! Its marginal really as to whether a .22 is really up to cleanly dispatching a fox. Years ago nobody really cared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 I am old enough to remember when foxes were only ever shot with a .22. Its only in recent years that foxing has become a seperate sport using rifles like .223 etc. Before then it was just 'farmers business' and nobody would ever query why you would want to use a .22 on a fox. The idea that somebody would go out and spend a grand on a rifle to shoot charlie would have been the talk of the village pub for weeks! Its marginal really as to whether a .22 is really up to cleanly dispatching a fox. Years ago nobody really cared. This has to be the best post of 2014. Like you, I grew up using a .22 to shoot foxes around the farm, long before these telescopic thingies were available. I would hate to think how many I shot over the years with one. All it takes is a bit of fieldcraft and common sence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 The idea that somebody would go out and spend a grand on a rifle to shoot charlie would have been the talk of the village pub for weeks! I moved into this area of North Suffolk 34 years ago. In those days the talk in the pub was of anyone seeing a fox at all. They just weren't a problem. Now with every other bloke and his cousin after them we still have loads to spare. Same with muntjacs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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