marsh man Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Reading " Fenboys " last post , the subject came up about fowling without a dog and the people who do have there own reasons for not owning one or being able to keep one . In my case I haven't been without a dog for the last 40 odd years and my type of shooting is the same as a lot of other fowlers on here , shooting on or near rivers , marshes intercepted by dykes and being out in the dark or very poor light , and weather its just me but a lot of the fowl I shoot need to be retrieved by a dog , we cant all kill cleanly what we fire at or drop them where they can be picked up on dry land and most of the people I know are the same. I know there will be people claim they only fire at birds they can retrieve and lose very little and I am not saying they don't , but I would say in wildfowling my dog is more important to me than the gun and without one my fowling days would have ended years ago . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berettacocker Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Some shooting you can get away without a dog, stubbles/ drillings, but that's about it. Wildfowling dog less, definite no no I'd say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 I too would not want to be without one , the limits it would put on your shooting must mean you have far less chances of putting something in the bag, and that is difficult enough even with a dog. but on most occasions there will be someone down the marsh with a dog or two if someone is having trouble picking a bird and they are normally only too pleased to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 I dont think you can ethicaly shoot live quarry without a dog, even pigeon shooting over stubble they can fly still fly on a fair distance and dissapear into a thick hedge bottom with no chance of getting them. Anyway this subject has been done to death on this forum and as you would expect those without dogs will always say they are careful what they shoot at and never wound anything (all the usual nonsense).Whilst those with dogs will say they are essential. It all comes down to the individuals ethics really if they have any or not (a bit like a dog ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 I dont think you can ethicaly shoot live quarry without a dog, even pigeon shooting over stubble they can fly still fly on a fair distance and dissapear into a thick hedge bottom with no chance of getting them. Anyway this subject has been done to death on this forum and as you would expect those without dogs will always say they are careful what they shoot at and never wound anything (all the usual nonsense).Whilst those with dogs will say they are essential. It all comes down to the individuals ethics really if they have any or not (a bit like a dog ) I would not go as far as to say it is not ethical to shoot without one , yes you will get some pricked birds fly on when pigeon shooting but even the best dog will not find those that go a good distance . If there are trees nearby a look underneath can soon add a few to the bag . Not ethical to me is the wasting of birds because you cannot be bothered to pick them or when you drop them in a area you know you will not be able to recover them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK fowler Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 like I said before I shoot without a dog and it does put a lot of restrictions on my marsh shooting evening flights cut short no moon flights I shoot late tides and always on the edge of the green so birds can be seen on the mud and picked I have shooting pals who I pair up with if need be who have dogs there have been many times I have let the tide drop back on sheps to pick birds even if it means coming of well after mid day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 like I said before I shoot without a dog and it does put a lot of restrictions on my marsh shooting evening flights cut short no moon flights I shoot late tides and always on the edge of the green so birds can be seen on the mud and picked I have shooting pals who I pair up with if need be who have dogs there have been many times I have let the tide drop back on sheps to pick birds even if it means coming of well after mid day Being a very keen fowler is there a particular reason you do not have a dog ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essox022 Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 I returned to shooting after a 15 year break I stopped due personal reasons, when I got the bug again the first thing I did before applying for a s.g.c was to go out and buy a lab puppy. I now shoot a large reserve on a regular basis and would estimate 30% of members shoot without a dog this includes shooting over decoys, it is accepted in the rules that you can shoot without a dog as long as you don’t shoot birds where they cannot be retrieved, this is a bit baffling as on a night flight most birds land where they cannot be seen, also you are sometimes unsure if a bird was hit or not when it wizzes by. so how do you find them without a dog, as the rules also state you must only use a dim light to find your way off, not a lamp to go look for shot birds there by disturbing birds going to roost, I understand the reasons for not having a dog I now have 4 and they are tying however I myself would not want to shoot wild fowl without a dog I do try to help pick birds for others near me, however how many get left? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 If it ain't against the law everyone is responsible to their own conscience for their own conduct, there are too many people in this world who wish to force their own idea of moral standards on others! If someone wants to shoot without a dog that's their business! Evidence the WWT, RSPB and RSPCA!!! Who are trying to force their own misguided (to me!) and questionable ideas, motives and morals on society in general and shooting in particular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 If it ain't against the law everyone is responsible to their own conscience for their own conduct, there are too many people in this world who wish to force their own idea of moral standards on others! If someone wants to shoot without a dog that's their business! Evidence the WWT, RSPB and RSPCA!!! Who are trying to force their own misguided (to me!) and questionable ideas, motives and morals on society in general and shooting in particular. Completely agree with this posting , if people wish to shoot without a dog and their conscience sees no problem with leaving crippled birds to die a slow lingering death from gangrene or starvation then it is up to them ,"after all its not illegal is it " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Completely agree with this posting , if people wish to shoot without a dog and their conscience sees no problem with leaving crippled birds to die a slow lingering death from gangrene or starvation then it is up to them ,"after all its not illegal is it " That's it take a lesson from our enemies and chuck the spurious emotional arguements in, after all that is what the RSPB, RSPCA et al do!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Completely agree with this posting , if people wish to shoot without a dog and their conscience sees no problem with leaving crippled birds to die a slow lingering death from gangrene or starvation then it is up to them ,"after all its not illegal is it " You need a snickers ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 (edited) Great post topic as I am going to venturing into Wildfowling,I asked this very question a few days ago as I felt It would be frowned upon if I shot without a dog or at least didn't team up with someone who did. I am not going to jump into this form of shooting without gaining some insight first.I want to get the dog first,then spend a year training it as well as learning the calls and flight patterns of legal quarry myself.Have had some great advise from 2 members who shoot Lindusfarne and been told to get up there and just watch and learn. The dog issue seems,as others have said to be probably the most important price of kit.I will follow this post with interest .I am fascinated with the wildfowlers,their knowledge is way beyond normal forms of shooting.Being able to identify species is poor light and knowledge of estuaries and tides ect,fascinating. Edited December 6, 2014 by Davyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew f Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Great post topic as I am going to venturing into Wildfowling,I asked this very question a few days ago as I felt It would be frowned upon if I shot without a dog or at least didn't team up with someone who did. I am not going to jump into this form of shooting without gaining some insight first.I want to get the dog first,then spend a year training it as well as learning the calls and flight patterns of legal quarry myself.Have had some great advise from 2 members who shoot Lindusfarne and been told to get up there and just watch and learn. The dog issue seems,as others have said to be probably the most important price of kit.I will follow this post with interest .I am fascinated with the wildfowlers,their knowledge is way beyond normal forms of shooting.Being able to identify species is poor light and knowledge of estuaries and tides ect,fascinating. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony G Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 My 2 labs will fetch anybody's birds Just ask Fenboy and Milo ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 That's it take a lesson from our enemies and chuck the spurious emotional arguements in, after all that is what the RSPB, RSPCA et al do!! Spurious emotional arguement ? ... I have just completely agreed with your post, its up to the individual . All i have done is highlight why most responsible shooters choose to take a dog.Davyo good on you at least try to team up with someone who has a dog . Like i said at the start those without dogs will give their own opinion and its usually that they are careful ,try not to wound ,only shoot over land etc . At the end of the day at your own discretion is the bottom line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew f Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 My 2 labs will fetch anybody's birds Just ask Fenboy and Milo ! Is that because they get bored of waiting :whistling: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Is that because they get bored of waiting :whistling: Thats exactly why Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony G Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Is that because they get bored of waiting :whistling: When I'm guiding I like my guest to shoot a few first !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew f Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Thats exactly why Thought so like the I saw in the shooting times dog cartoon dog sat behind sign saying well looked after hardly used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 I would have shot a few more if you did not keep scaring them by shooting "near" them , I will see if Big Mat is available to give you a lesson or two . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 I would have shot a few more if you did not keep scaring them by shooting "near" them , I will see if Big Mat is available to give you a lesson or two . Someone needs to teach you how to shoot wigeon on the washes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony G Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 They are certainly well looked after but they do get plenty of use,honestly ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Someone needs to teach you how to shoot wigeon on the washes Quite possibly , but it wouldnt be you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony G Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Have you got your RSPB coaching badges now then mat ? ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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