Family Clay Shoot Questions

[FraserP]

I'm looking to organise an adhock session for the family to shoot together. We will not know until relatively late that we have the time to shoot. Initial enquiries have indicated that most will only allow the kids (12 and 15 years) to have 'round' with an instructor, turning up on spec makes this a non starter.

Another issue is that the kids are not strong enough to use the 12g's and we need to borrow or hire a 20g. That appears to be where the 2nd block is, as soon as that is mentioned it seems to cause issues. "Only if they have previously had lessons here"

Both myself and GF hold SGC's and the kids (although very much beginers) have previously have had lessons but don't have SGC's. She usually shoots in the Essex area and the feed back from there isn't very positive. Yesterday they announced they are coming up to Manchester over new year and thought I'd ask here.

Most of the issue appears to be regarding the term 'supervision' and how that is applied.

So, I'm looking for a clay ground in the Manchester, Cheshire or the north west UK area that may be able to help. Suitable 20g gun for hire and will allow us to shoot together without an instructor in attendance.

Any suggestions?

[Yellow Bear]

MCSC at Worsley

[FraserP]

Just returned from MCSC and surely enough they can accommodate us. Only bugbear is the 20g gun availability but thats not a major issue.

[robbiep]

You may be competent to handle a gun, but in a case like this, you have to ask yourself this : Are you REALLY absolutely competent to supervise an absolute novice, who might do the most unexpected thing at any moment ?

 

If the answer still comes back as 'yes', then one bit of advice : the novice only ever has one cartridge loaded in the gun. If that hadn't already occurred to you, then the answer to the question was really 'No'.

[loriusgarrulus]

Try Mickley Hall Nantwich.

[will_gleave]

Wild boar clay shoot glossop.

[FraserP]

You may be competent to handle a gun, but in a case like this, you have to ask yourself this : Are you REALLY absolutely competent to supervise an absolute novice, who might do the most unexpected thing at any moment ?

 

If the answer still comes back as 'yes', then one bit of advice : the novice only ever has one cartridge loaded in the gun. If that hadn't already occurred to you, then the answer to the question was really 'No'.

How many 'absolutely's' can we get in one sentence? To your questions, the answer is yes and it had already occurred to me. They are novices, and on this occasion, the only time they will hold the gun will be in the cage and the only time it will will be loaded, it will have the 'single' cart in the chamber placed there by myself.

 

Thanks for the advice though.

 

My question was more about where we could shoot.

 

Try Mickley Hall Nantwich.

Mickley Hall was also on the cards when considering the lesson option. It's on the outside of the distance to travel but I have been there and it is a tidy operation.

I have called them several times in an attempt to organise a group lesson and left a message but they never called me back. Since then it became clear that we could not be that specific on a time, so that is why we have plan B. It is also near the relatives place though, so it's still not out of the question

 

We're in Essex Christmas week and Manchester over new year. Many of the Essex grounds are 2 weekly, so they are not open or they are also booked.

 

Wild boar clay shoot glossop.

 

I hadn't considered Wild Boar. We regularly go walking up there in the Peak District but, having experienced January on Kinder, I'd rather we were a little lower and little more sheltered.

 

It was wintery enough today at MCSC at Worsley, rain, hail, and gusty winds. So much wind that, on one stand, the going away birds were climbing and landing back no more than 10 ft away, (even the part broken clays). If you missed (or didn't get a clean break) with the first barrel, there was plenty of time to take it on it's return.

 

If and when we get to 'whatever ground is chosen', if there is an instructor free, we'll gladly pay for and accept their assistance for the hour or so that we'll be there. Thank you for all the advice and suggestions.

[Will Poon]

Try Coniston shooting ground http://www.conistonshootingground.co.uk, Kelbrook shooting ground http://www.kelbrookshootingschool.co.uk , North Wales shooting school http://www.shootingschool.net or Fauxdegla http://www.fauxdeglashootingground.co.uk.

I know they are quite spread out but these are the grounds that I visit sometimes as I live in the north west

[clayman]

The reason you face the problem is that your supervisory qualities are unknown to the ground operators. You are not a qualified instructor and therefore do not have any known experience for supervision nor professional indemnity insurance to cover the kids. They do not have SGC's and therefore they can only legally shoot under supervision by virtue of the ground in question having an 11.6 permit ( the fact you hold a license DOES NOT make their handling of a gun legal at a clay ground). For an unlicensed person to shoot under an 11.6 permit granted to named individual at the ground, that individual is legally responsible for ensuring adequate supervision, by themselves or delegation. The ground's insurance will not cover the children's activities unless the ground has specifically delegated the supervision to a competent person, and as you are not a qualified instructor or a regular they have confidence in, they would quite correctly want the children supervised by their choice of instructor. Once you have paid a ground for their instructor to train the kids, and have demonstrated your own capabilities to the ground for further supervision, they may make you the responsible person, so then both the kids handling of the gun is legal, and the insurance operative if they are a commercial club. Note that most small clubs hold NO insurance that covers non-SGC holders, only larger grounds with full commercial cover. The insurance aspect is dealt with satisfactorily when a qualified instructor supervises, as instructors carry their own professional liability that extends to the novice, your own insurance does not.

Take out family shooting insurance or get policies in the kids names to deal with the constraint on this. Then pay for a lesson at the ground in question and prove your ability to correctly supervise them for the future. Once the children are cleared by the club's instructor, and you are accepted as a responsible person for supervision under sec 11.6 of the fire-arms act, you can do what you want.

[FraserP]

We finally visited MCSC at Worsley where I have shot many, many times. Due to logistic issues, the New Year trip was off. The visit occurred mid Dec The none SCG holders (the kids) were asked to sign the 'usual' form. They had no objections to allowing my supervision. The kids had both previously had a lesson at this ground.

 

The only 2 real issues, the weather (very cold) and selecting a suitable gun. By suitable, I mean light enough for them to use. The shortest and lightest 20G was still a tad on the heavy side but, for the relatively few shots they had , they handled it well.

 

I'll look into the family insurance issue. Many thanks for the advice.

[FinFerNan]

The reason you face the problem is that your supervisory qualities are unknown to the ground operators. You are not a qualified instructor and therefore do not have any known experience for supervision nor professional indemnity insurance to cover the kids. They do not have SGC's and therefore they can only legally shoot under supervision by virtue of the ground in question having an 11.6 permit ( the fact you hold a license DOES NOT make their handling of a gun legal at a clay ground). For an unlicensed person to shoot under an 11.6 permit granted to named individual at the ground, that individual is legally responsible for ensuring adequate supervision, by themselves or delegation. The ground's insurance will not cover the children's activities unless the ground has specifically delegated the supervision to a competent person, and as you are not a qualified instructor or a regular they have confidence in, they would quite correctly want the children supervised by their choice of instructor. Once you have paid a ground for their instructor to train the kids, and have demonstrated your own capabilities to the ground for further supervision, they may make you the responsible person, so then both the kids handling of the gun is legal, and the insurance operative if they are a commercial club. Note that most small clubs hold NO insurance that covers non-SGC holders, only larger grounds with full commercial cover. The insurance aspect is dealt with satisfactorily when a qualified instructor supervises, as instructors carry their own professional liability that extends to the novice, your own insurance does not.

Take out family shooting insurance or get policies in the kids names to deal with the constraint on this. Then pay for a lesson at the ground in question and prove your ability to correctly supervise them for the future. Once the children are cleared by the club's instructor, and you are accepted as a responsible person for supervision under sec 11.6 of the fire-arms act, you can do what you want.

 

Brilliant explanation

 

FraserP - As you say your question was more related to "where can we shoot" Well the answer is mostly related to where it's safe to do so, but you do appear to be oblivious to the reasons why the grounds you have spoken too are not too keen to accommodate you.

 

This is in part to do with the insurance requirements as very ably explained above by clayman. But also to do with the fact that children (and some adults!) and shooting are not always a good combination. (As yours have already shot, I assume they know how to conduct themselves) But I have seen kids who seem to think it's OK for them to run about, shouting as though they are at a playground.

 

It's a difficult balance, and I'm sure most people will agree with you encouraging youngsters into the sport (I have done so on a number of occasions) But this needs to be done in a way that suits the prevailing circumstances of the specific ground, not just you or the children. Having read claymans post, I am sure you appreciate that ground owners need to protect themselves, but they also need protect their business by providing the right kind of atmosphere for the all of the other shooters to enjoy.

 

This is why some clubs have arrangements for training stands, these are used exclusively for training when the shoot is busy or prefer to hold "try out" sessions when the ground is quieter.

 

As you have said, your two have shot before so most of this would not apply to them. But of course only the ground owner where they shot will know that.