Jump to content

Hungarian (Wirehaired) Viszla


southwest_colonel
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hello again. Some of you may recall my query over the summer about the relative merits of labradors and spaniels... I'm continuing to take my search for a dog very slowly - as it will be my first for some time and would very much like to make sure I make the right decision.

 

I've done a little search of the forums and found a few small bits and pieces, but not a lot, about Hungarian Viszlas. I've added the viszla to my list - as it seems like a brilliant all around dog, and could be just what I'm looking for. To summarise from my previous thread, that is the all-in-one dog... Though, as ever, one has to prioritise.

  1. I need a dog which has the temperament to be stead at the peg, but is also a capable retriever (hence I'm considering a lab, but the spaniels could be a little less ideal).
  2. I would ideally like a dog that can hunt quite well, for rough shooting (so, spaniels look good, labradors less so).
  3. Ideally, the ability to be useful, at some stage, on a grouse moor (where I get a small amount of shooting thanks to clients). Though I appreciate that it might be difficult for a dog to be of much use here without regular exposure and, of course, training. Or I could be very wrong.
  4. I would rather like a dog for companionship too... Which I think is why my heart's always said cocker spaniel - there's something about the way they look at you!

I've always liked the idea of a cocker spaniel - though the previous thread (and my head, if not my heart) was leaning towards a labrador - as the last thing I want as a sporting agent is a mad spaniel... If I take on a second dog, then I can go with my heart, and reserve the spaniel for when I'm not with clients.

 

However... From what I've read elsewhere, the viszla sounds like one of the best all-round HPRs available. Does anyone have much experience who'd be willing to type a few thoughts down? Also, is there much difference between the traditional and wirehaired strains? I appreciate there will be some differences, but are they significant?

 

Many thanks in advance for allowing me to take advantage of your collective knowledge.

Edited by southwest_colonel
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used to have as much pleasure from shooting at the peg with a dog as picking up behind the guns...............thats why i ran 6 dogs in my kennels 3 labs and 3 sprockers...i always worked them in pairs....one spanner and one lab....what one missed the other one would find...one would work at distance and one would work close in.....never had any dealings with HPR's only ever seen them at trials...never seen them work in the field.....................

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I run both a wire vizsla and a cocker.

 

The wire is a fabulous breed and a great family dog. The wire is generally a slightly bigger and heavier breed than the 'smooth' vizsla, but work wise I on't think there's any real difference if you train them properly. The coat does vary a lot from very hard and tight (like mine) to long and soft/woolly. I'd steer towards the former rather than the latter.

 

As a house dog they are the perfect fireside companion and are pretty talkative. Ask mine a question and you will get an answer! He is an absolute character an everyone on my shoot knows him. He is a superb hunter and has a rock-steady point - nothing will move him if he is 'on' a bird until you tell him to 'set it'. He has a very soft mouth and is a great retriever, but he will work only for me - completely ignores Mrs T, whatever command she gives him.

 

Bad side is he will run in from a peg if he sees a bird drop and another dog hasn't gone for it :oops: . He's 6 now and learnt bad habits from other dogs, so it's either put up with it or peg him down. He won't run in if another dog has gone for the retrieve.

 

On cockers, mine will work for anyone - she just loves working so much. Again though, in the house she is a perfect little lady, but I know once she is on the shoot (I'm taking her tomorrow) she'll be in and out of 5 cars in the first 10 secs of me letting her out :lol: .

 

The cocker is great through thick cover and in water - the viz is better in hedgerows, open ground or light cover. I take whichever suits my day.

 

Drop me a pm if you want to know more about the wire :good: . I know I'll always have one :yes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've got 2 GWP's but have shot and trained with most HPR's.

I would suggest that if your main requirement is a peg dog then a HPR is not the best choice.

They are not happy sitting on a peg and would rather be hunting.

They are great for rough shooting but require more training than a lab or springer.

If your going to struggle dedicating time to training then maybe they are not for you.

Have you been out shooting over HPR's? It may help you decide what to get.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If your going to struggle dedicating time to training then maybe they are not for you.

 

I should have plenty of time for training (the advantage of 'being my own boss') - my training time concern was specific to pointing on moors. If that pointing side of a dog's skill set was not given enough regular exposure, could it end up being a bit of a lost attribute? By no means the end of the world if so - it would be a 'nice to have' thing, but definitely a secondary consideration.

 

Interesting point regarding the training though - I'm not terribly experienced at training my own dogs. Would you say that they are harder to train in your experience, or just require more time to do so? Thanks.

Edited by southwest_colonel
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've only trained pointing dogs but knowing people who have both I would say they are harder/require more time/take longer.

I've never been on a grouse moor but I think if you have the right ground to train on you can replicate it down south. You need space to let the dog get out. Spring pointing tests are run in large open wheat fields so you should be able to train for the moor easy enough.

Some hpr's are more natural pointers than others but I think that's just the luck of the draw. My pup doesn't seem that keen at the moment but my other dog was pointing by this age. You can train for the pointing so don't worry about that. My dog will point anything in any environment. The hard bit is getting them to be steady on point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I run both a wire vizsla and a cocker.

 

The wire is a fabulous breed and a great family dog. The wire is generally a slightly bigger and heavier breed than the 'smooth' vizsla, but work wise I on't think there's any real difference if you train them properly. The coat does vary a lot from very hard and tight (like mine) to long and soft/woolly. I'd steer towards the former rather than the latter.

 

As a house dog they are the perfect fireside companion and are pretty talkative. Ask mine a question and you will get an answer! He is an absolute character an everyone on my shoot knows him. He is a superb hunter and has a rock-steady point - nothing will move him if he is 'on' a bird until you tell him to 'set it'. He has a very soft mouth and is a great retriever, but he will work only for me - completely ignores Mrs T, whatever command she gives him.

 

Bad side is he will run in from a peg if he sees a bird drop and another dog hasn't gone for it :oops: . He's 6 now and learnt bad habits from other dogs, so it's either put up with it or peg him down. He won't run in if another dog has gone for the retrieve.

 

On cockers, mine will work for anyone - she just loves working so much. Again though, in the house she is a perfect little lady, but I know once she is on the shoot (I'm taking her tomorrow) she'll be in and out of 5 cars in the first 10 secs of me letting her out :lol: .

 

The cocker is great through thick cover and in water - the viz is better in hedgerows, open ground or light cover. I take whichever suits my day.

 

Drop me a pm if you want to know more about the wire :good: . I know I'll always have one :yes:

 

Substitute cocker for labrador and i would say ditto for me. I have a lab and a whv. Paul describes them just right for me. My lab was american field bred, so lighter in build and weight, but leggy for running all day. My whv is tighter and harder coated like paul's. Both great dogs in their own ways.

 

The criteria you have outlined makes a lab the perfect choice, I'm sorry but I never tire of recommending a lab as THE best all round Gundog there is, only my opinion of course.

Agree. A good lab from field breeding where the line has been bred for hunting is hard to beat as an all around dog. They might not cover as much ground as fast as some of the other breeds, but as a do everything dog, my lab will get it done.

 

Rick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd agree with wgd, for wot ur wanting the only dog i'd consider for myself would be a lab, any proper working labs will hit cover hard enough for and walked up day, mine certainly do, but i'll admit some of those more FT skinny/whippetty things won't.

 

With ur job as well i'd say it would be quite important to have a relatively well trained dog, a lab would be my choice.

 

Most hpr's (and many cockers) could develop noise issues if either sat on pegs for long periods or if ur running a day, and usually very hard to cure.

I quite like the HWV's tat i have seen but i ithnik the are quite 'knacky' to train as can be quite senstive but also vary massively between individual dogs, but hpr's generally can be quite difficult to train at times (would not reccommend 1 for a novice)

 

 

The 1 other thing about dogs,no matter how good ur dog is (and probably more so if ur dog is pretty good, and esp with ur job) people only remember the bad things it does and esp so if ur dog is a distinct colour/breed and wot ever it done usually gets exagerated massively too..Shooters love to gossip and tell stories

Not unusual to see an ABL ( anonoumus black lab) in a flushing point early but the minute its a fox red 1 or hpr it will be talked about for ever more no matter how good the dog usually is and everyone knows exactly who's dog it is. While with a black 1 u can claim it;s not ur's and someone else's

 

For ur 1st dog for a while i'd stick to a ABL (of working rather than FT stock) u will learn a lot about training/reading dogs then if u feel braver in 4/5 years time go for a fancy colour or breed, but i doubt many breeds would top a lab for wot u want

 

In theory u could also look at either flatty's or Goldens but there is a reason that labs are so common and overtook both those breeds in the shooting field, they are better, it will also cost u for a decent working pup and there will not be a decent choice of working pups. Another breed as a 2nd dog in the future?

Edited by scotslad
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why not go look at some part trained dogs, you could see a variety of spaniels and labs, assess their ability to hunt and sit on a peg and make a decision on an individual dog rather than a breed. Might just help with a decision either way.

 

My cocker will sit quiet as a mouse on a peg, but that is more nurture than nature as a pup she became very retrieve orientated. So whilst cockers can do it its more difficult to train into them. With professional guidance I believe most cockers capable of being trained to peg work.

 

If I were recommending purely on what you say you need and taking into account a novice trainer, your occupation, and looking at a puppy, you have to hedge your bets on a lab.

 

I know it can look the "boring" choice but there is nothing guaranteed to ruin your shooting more than your dog deciding it's going off on it's own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In coming back round to your post, the relatively few vizlas I have shot with have been used for sweeping up birds and are kept on leads until the shooting has finished.

 

I'm told these particular dogs quarter at too large an area to be useful beating. Given the concentration of birds on a managed pheasant shoot compared to grouse moors I can understand why that's a problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've got two gwp's and when beating they are far easier when you have lots of game about as they don't need to range to find it. However when you get to a quiet bit then you have to stay on top of them. I do love shooting over them and game finding not much will touch them but as a peg dog and your use get a lab.

WHV are getting popular for a mix of reasons looks are one, for stalking is another. Ultimately you need to buy the dog you like but don't be misled by the idea they will do everything as it takes a very very good trainer to achieve any where near. You will however have a pretty high performance dog which will have the exercise requirements that go with it. Mine live in and as long as well exercised are very laid back but you sure know if they don't have a decent walk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On my second WHV, 18 months old and still learning his trade. Still immature and just wants to play with other dogs if given the chance but starting to point very very well, he is very much work in progress. Every dog is different, but from my limited experience they are not the perfect peg dog, they want to be active either hunting or retrieving. Both of mine have let me know vocally that they were not happy sat still when a lot is going on. ie whining. On the positive side I found this pup easy to train, has a fantastic nose and a great hunting drive now he realises what it is all about, I just wish I had a quiet one, I am sure they must exist lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Next time ur out on a shoot and see a decent keepers/pickers up or beaters (or even guns lab) lab and u like the build temperment and ability work rate style etc i'd ask the owner about if there thinking of having pups or wot sort of lines/breeding is in it. Even if u see a terribly trained wild lab but like the look of it/nose etc, not the dogs fault it's badly trained if it looks like it has the ability.

Basically whenever u get the chance to ask folk in person about there dogs ask away, most shooters with dogs would talk all day about them

 

Even with labs u will probably soon find 1 or 2 lines/kennels/sires common in a lot of the dogs u like, so u know wot lines/kennels to be asking advice from when u want a pup.

 

U have the ideal job to see a lot of dogs working on different shoots (althou i appreciate u probably have that much going on watching dogs work is well down ur poirities)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

HWV are awesome dogs, I have two of them and they are great company in everything I do, the oldest is nearly 12 months old and I have found him reasonably easy to train as long as you stick at it and has the makings of a good dog, I would agree that they are better suited to rough shooting and I enjoy walking around my permission with him even if we don't see alot

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...