sable Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 now this could be interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon controller Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Yes if Greece decide to default on there bail out loans what will Italy,Spain and Portugal do??They owe 318 billion Euros . My contacts in Greece are saying they will revert back to the Drachma which will be a useless currency in Europe. They only have a population of ten million so they are the smallest European country, time will tell. Edited January 25, 2015 by pigeon controller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30975437 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 They are asking for half of their debt to be written off. Sounds fanciful, but there is precedent. In the 1950's half of Germany's war debt was written off as it would have been impossible for them to rebuild their economy without this. This was called the London Agreement http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agreement_on_German_External_Debts Yes - highly ironic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 If the new promise the world anti austerity party fail to win they are in bother as they all seem to have stopped paying their taxes (isn't that what got them into the mess to start with?) in the hope that the new party will wave them. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Where's that Pyxie chap with an explanation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Where's that Pyxie chap with an explanation? School tomorrow, early bath and bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 If the new promise the world anti austerity party fail to win they are in bother as they all seem to have stopped paying their taxes (isn't that what got them into the mess to start with?) in the hope that the new party will wave them. KW Non payment of taxes & the black economy was part of it. The real issue was going into the Euro when the economy was unprepared for it. Goldman Sachs fudged the figures for Greece so they could qualify. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a8wj2A4RttMQ The Greek government was also spending too much. Heavy public spending and high pensions associated with state workers. Greece is only 11m people. More people live within the M25 than the whole of Greece. Added to that the easy and cheap money conferred to Greece, people started spending too - buying manufactured goods from countries like Germany! By all rights, Greece should gave never got into the Eurozone when it did. They were not ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) It will be such a shame if it all goes bad for Greece. We have had several good holidays out in various places and in the islands. From what I have seen and experienced they are a very friendly and helpful people, generally. I don’t know the fine points of what has caused this fall apart from theblack economy, the failure to pay taxes and things like the low, low prices of the trains out there Ect. We paid 1 Euro return to travel from Piraeus to Athens on the train, which was a distance of about thirteen miles each way I Think. This last summer I managed to have a round of clays near Chania on Crete and the shooting guys there could not have been any more helpful. My best wishes for all the Greek people. Edited January 25, 2015 by fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 School tomorrow, early bath and bed. Oh yes of course, how silly of me to overlook that point! Non payment of taxes & the black economy was part of it. The real issue was going into the Euro when the economy was unprepared for it. Goldman Sachs fudged the figures for Greece so they could qualify. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a8wj2A4RttMQ The Greek government was also spending too much. Heavy public spending and high pensions associated with state workers. Greece is only 11m people. More people live within the M25 than the whole of Greece. Added to that the easy and cheap money conferred to Greece, people started spending too - buying manufactured goods from countries like Germany! By all rights, Greece should gave never got into the Eurozone when it did. They were not ready. They lied in order to qualify, their books were COOKED! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Where's that Pyxie chap with an explanation? School tomorrow, early bath and bed. Oh yes of course, how silly of me to overlook that point! Seriously - this is the kind of banter I'd expect on the school playground - grow up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 If you look at their public spending after joining the Euro, it skyrocketed, they had access to grants and funds they had never seen before. They are an agrarian and tourism based economy but spent like a US of A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Seriously - this is the kind of banter I'd expect on the school playground - grow up. Lighten up Victor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 If you look at their public spending after joining the Euro, it skyrocketed, they had access to grants and funds they had never seen before. They are an agrarian and tourism based economy but spent like a US of A. They needed to further reform the economy, but didn't quite do enough. Not too dissimilar from the UK, we spend more than we earn as a country. Public sector pensions, health care, defence, and other public services. Before the Euro, they could just print more money - but that came to an end. I'm confident Greece will come right - but it will take time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Well put Aris, but i am thinking a decade.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Maybe a decade, maybe less - lots of question marks at the moment with a new party which have never been in power. Before now, power swapped between New Democracy, and Pasok. Bit like labour and conservatives here. Syriza is like UKIP winning the election. Imagine the discontent and disillusionment Greeks must have to vote an unknown into power. Interesting times indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeDrags Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Good luck to the Greeks - cant help thinking that the elitist unelected scum in Brussels will do everything they can to humiliate the Greek people for daring to go against their voting 'instructions'. The abject misery and widespread poverty visited on the Greeks by their subservient government meant it couldnt be any worse under any new administration and thus they had nothing to lose - a sigh of relief that Golden Dawn didnt make significant advances but they still got 7% and havent gone away.I think Tspiras has significant cards to play - remember there is no mechanism in the treaties to kick a country out of the EU.Hope we leave the EU ( if ever given a say -doubtful with liar Camerunt in No.10) and then they can join our trading block with the rest of the world outside TTIP ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 They didn't seem to be under any stress about much when we were out there last summer. Everything seemed pretty normal to me. Anyway the guys up in the mountains had plenty of ammo to shoot up the road signs with, in fact every road sign all over had holes through them from the little back mountain roads to the ones on the national higway ( Motorway kind of road) Lodsa lead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Seriously - this is the kind of banter I'd expect on the school playground - grow up. You do know where you are don't you, if you seek serious political conversation go to a political forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 You do know where you are don't you, if you seek serious political conversation go to a political forum! While I don't expect a deep philosophical conversation here, I also don't expect schoolboy bullying either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 While I don't expect a deep philosophical conversation here, I also don't expect schoolboy bullying either. I don't believe it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 While I don't expect a deep philosophical conversation here, I also don't expect schoolboy bullying either. Stop acting like your username! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 So it appears that Syriza have been successful. It shall make fascinating watching to see what unfolds, Alexis Tsipras has been big on posturing and rhetoric, but how will that actually transpire now that he has been passed the ball? The first real test shall be if Greece benefit from the QE programme recently announced by the ECB, although it was expected there would be restrictive covenants around any QE directed towards Greece, this result may exclude them from anything at all until Syriza make their intentions clear. Thankfully the UK is not excessively exposed to syndicated Greek debts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 It isn’t real money. How can anyone say "Well we re just going to produce XXX Zillion Euros"? Where did this come from in reality? Did someone take a toilet roll and write on each sheet 1000 euro because that is what they are doing. All it is to do is to control a country from outside without a shot fired. When we were out in Crete this last summer there was no evidence of impending collapse as far as I could see. The shops were full of food, the shops had plenty of stock, there was no shortage of petrol, public transport ran frequently on time with loads of people on the busses, the emergency services were in evidence and operational, there were no frantic stressed out demos or anything like, it was all very normal. And there were quite a few guys up at the clay ground on a mid Wednesday afternoon into the evening shooting, having a beer and just hanging out. Some looked very well fed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) What sort of bargaining position does Alexis Tsipras and his Syriza party possibly have to renegotiate? He doesn't appear to have an overall majority. Edited January 26, 2015 by TIGHTCHOKE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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