kdubya Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) Was talking yesterday about a lad who has applied for a SGC, and the fact he has been told he will be granted one providing his gun/guns are kept at a registered club? today I became aware of another chap (neighboring force) who has been sent a letter to the effect that he MUST join a clay club and that the ground owner must certify after a period of not less than 3 months that he his safe and competent after which his FLO will revisit him prior to any grant, as far as I am aware neither of these "conditions" are required or are chief constables now being told to "tighten up" as one force you would think rouge CPO two = collusion or directive? interesting times ahead me thinks. KW Edited February 1, 2015 by kdubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Drip...drip...drip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 The phrase, chipping away comes to mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 I think it differs from force to force........i have seen that in action 20 years ago when at a clay club...a young lad applied for an SGC...and was told to continue his membership for a period of 6 months ...and at the end a letter from the clay club secertary should accompany the application..... i think this is acceptable in certain cases....it prevents young people ...or even older ones for that matter...blagging their way thro to a SGC....and having no interest in the sport side...but emphasis put on the "possesion" aspect of it.............used to have the same people in pistol shooting...there were 3 basic types...... Purists...target shooting Historical (collectors) sexual thrill seekers I think that "good reason" to posess a weapon must be proved....and how that is done is up to the individual FEO's..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Was talking yesterday about a lad who has applied for a SGC, and the fact he has been told he will be granted one providing his gun/guns are kept at a registered club? today I became aware of another chap (neighboring force) who has been sent a letter to the effect that he MUST join a clay club and that the ground owner must certify after a period of not less than 3 months that he his safe and competent after which his FLO will revisit him prior to any grant, as far as I am aware neither of these "conditions" are required or are chief constables now being told to "tighten up" as one force you would think rouge CPO two = collusion or directive? interesting times ahead me thinks. KW I can only think that in the first case, there must be someone else resident at his address who is viewed by the police as an unacceptable risk. In the second case, the police are going outside their remit. I would ask the person to ask his police force for their 'requirements' in writing, and then take it to BASC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konnie Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 right lets get it clear I am unsure about what I'm about to say. But as long as there is a single days game shooting available, anywhere in the country what gives them the right to say where you keep your guns, one of those pegs on that day could be yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwizard Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Is this only with new applicants I wonder as I have just had my renewals back without restrictions . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennym Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Was talking yesterday about a lad who has applied for a SGC, and the fact he has been told he will be granted one providing his gun/guns are kept at a registered club? today I became aware of another chap (neighboring force) who has been sent a letter to the effect that he MUST join a clay club and that the ground owner must certify after a period of not less than 3 months that he his safe and competent after which his FLO will revisit him prior to any grant, as far as I am aware neither of these "conditions" are required or are chief constables now being told to "tighten up" as one force you would think rouge CPO two = collusion or directive? interesting times ahead me thinks. KW I have a shooting buddy who on his first application was granted HMR, .22LR, shotgun. section 1 shotgun and 308, with no mentoring conditions, I think this was in the same or neighbouring force (Durham and Cleveland) a few months ago I don't doubt the op's facts but there's maybe more to the storey, or the change is very new, or there's a big disparity on the decision making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) I would have to see the cert to believe Durham clears him for those on 1st application.When they are tying their hardest to revoke certificates. Edited February 1, 2015 by Davyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glb8686 Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 All well and good saying you've got to be a member of a clay club if you only want to shoot game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 I think it differs from force to force........i have seen that in action 20 years ago when at a clay club...a young lad applied for an SGC...and was told to continue his membership for a period of 6 months ...and at the end a letter from the clay club secertary should accompany the application..... i think this is acceptable in certain cases....it prevents young people ...or even older ones for that matter...blagging their way thro to a SGC....and having no interest in the sport side...but emphasis put on the "possesion" aspect of it.............used to have the same people in pistol shooting...there were 3 basic types...... Purists...target shooting Historical (collectors) sexual thrill seekers I think that "good reason" to posess a weapon must be proved....and how that is done is up to the individual FEO's..... Can't agree with this I'm afraid. There is no requirement to prove 'good reason' to possess a SGC, unlike a FAC, and once SGC has been granted nothing at all to prevent that applicant from purchasing half a dozen shotguns. There is also nothing to prevent an applicant from joining a clay pigeon club, gaining their SGC and then never attending that club again. The six month probationary period for pistol clubs may have put off certain applicants, but find the 'sexual thrill seekers' type suggestion as quite hilarious. I got a great adrenalin rush from competitive practical pistol and equally great thrills from blasting fruit etc into smithereens, but can't recall walking around with an erection as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manton Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 I think it differs from force to force........i have seen that in action 20 years ago when at a clay club...a young lad applied for an SGC...and was told to continue his membership for a period of 6 months ...and at the end a letter from the clay club secertary should accompany the application..... i think this is acceptable in certain cases....it prevents young people ...or even older ones for that matter...blagging their way thro to a SGC....and having no interest in the sport side...but emphasis put on the "possesion" aspect of it.............used to have the same people in pistol shooting...there were 3 basic types...... Purists...target shooting Historical (collectors) sexual thrill seekers I think that "good reason" to posess a weapon must be proved....and how that is done is up to the individual FEO's..... If there is one thing that the shooting community should should ensure it is that an individual firearms officer should never be allowed to decide who has a good reason . We have the Firearms Act and agreed guidance notes and good reason should never be determined by any individual no matter who they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennym Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 I would have to see the cert to believe Durham clears him for those on 1st application.When they are tying their hardest to revoke certificates. Because we all lie ti get attention ........lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Totally agree with kdubya,definitely interesting times ahead,I am licencesed under Durham and although I have good reason for FAC and hold SGC,on renewal of the SGC I was asked "do you realy need to shoot?" renewal has been with them since 26/11/14 still no word.They even tried to remove both my sons & my certs under the old revoke through association trick,where we had to prove that my son had no connection of friendship with a friends friends. I mean I have a policeman who shoots on one of my permissions (as a guest) does that mean through knowing him I am associating with criminals.It wouldn't surprise me one bit if what kdubya says is true. I have never been in any kind of trouble in my life and to be treated like a criminal is totally unacceptable oh and to add insult to injury also been refered too as old man.The fact of the matter is that these licensing authorities are trying but failing to gain public confidence and still making stupid mistakes. We keep referring to diff authorities doing different things or having different rules,there should be not differentials irrespective of force area if the are following home office quide lines ( for God sake it was only a couple of years ago when 2 FEO's stood in the dock at the Atherton tribunal and admitted they where not aware there was home office guidance) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted February 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) I have a shooting buddy who on his first application was granted HMR, .22LR, shotgun. section 1 shotgun and 308, with no mentoring conditions, I think this was in the same or neighbouring force (Durham and Cleveland) a few months ago I don't doubt the op's facts but there's maybe more to the storey, or the change is very new, or there's a big disparity on the decision making. 1st case Cleveland 2nd Durham,in the 1st case I dont know the background just that he cant keep the guns at home ( no good for pigeon shooting at 6am then) on the second the letter stated due to having no experience! you MUST join a clay club and after 3 months if the ground owner considered you safe and WRITE'S to us to confirm this then a revisit will be made? I always thought owning a shotgun was a right and that no reason to own was required, looks like Durham (thank god they aint my area) are just making it up as they go along. KW Edited February 1, 2015 by kdubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scutt Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Discussed the reason to own a shotgun with police officer when renewing licence a few years back (when it was a serving officer who had the job of doing the gun licences etc.) he said that you can just want a s/gun to have and polish and put away its down to you the police have no grounds to ask why you want or object on reasons to own a shotgun. Don't think any change to this in law since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennym Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 1st case Cleveland 2nd Durham,in the 1st case I dont know the background just that he cant keep the guns at home ( no good for pigeon shooting at 6am then) on the second the letter stated due to having no experience! you MUST join a clay club and after 3 months if the ground owner considered you safe and WRITE'S to us to confirm this then a revisit will be made? I always thought owning a shotgun was a right and that no reason to own was required, looks like Durham (thank god they aint my area) are just making it up as they go along. KW Would this be something his shooting organisation could help him with? (I'm with BASC) or a good reason to join one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith RW Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Had similar with mine earlier last month with South Yorkshire police sending out a different version of the approved/agreed "diversity" form along with renewals notice and a cover letter "suggesting" that a if a fully completed application was not received within 14 days then renewal may not be renewed before expiry date .... Contacted BASC who promptly sorted things out with the relevant authorities and having informed me that the "form" that was sent out and received was in fact Illegal. As above, if any abnormalities occur then take it up with the likes of BASC for clarification as it appears that more and more are coming to light ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 I think it differs from force to force........i have seen that in action 20 years ago when at a clay club...a young lad applied for an SGC...and was told to continue his membership for a period of 6 months ...and at the end a letter from the clay club secertary should accompany the application..... i think this is acceptable in certain cases....it prevents young people ...or even older ones for that matter...blagging their way thro to a SGC....and having no interest in the sport side...but emphasis put on the "possesion" aspect of it.............used to have the same people in pistol shooting...there were 3 basic types...... Purists...target shooting Historical (collectors) sexual thrill seekers I think that "good reason" to posess a weapon must be proved....and how that is done is up to the individual FEO's..... You do not need to provide any reason to own a shot gun. If you are deemed suitable then it is your right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 You do not need to provide any reason to own a shot gun. If you are deemed suitable then it is your right. Absolutely correct, you do not need to show any reason. This dates back to I think it was 1968 when shotguns were first licenced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glb8686 Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 On the other hand I know people who have a clean record but shouldn't be allowed a firearm. Measures need to be in place that these people will be responsible. I was made to have three lessons and a letter written by the coach to advise that I was safe and competent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith RW Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Once we start being submissive to the whims of others abusing the laws and the guidelines that are laid down in legislation then we are on the road to ruin and may as well just lay down and roll over.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Let's be clear about this. It is the job of the police to check if the applicant is unfit by reason of criminality, national security and ill health to hold a SGC - and that's all. Despite the high handed attitude and patronising tone of their letters they aren't "granting" anything to anyone. You have a perfect right to a SGC as long as the lawful reasons to refuse it don't apply to you. I've said before that the arrogance of the ACPO in believing that they can make up laws as they go along needs to be held in check and I for one am thankful that BASC is willing go into bat on our behalf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennym Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 On the other hand I know people who have a clean record but shouldn't be allowed a firearm. Measures need to be in place that these people will be responsible. I was made to have three lessons and a letter written by the coach to advise that I was safe and competent. Im not in favour of red tape or conditions but to give a balanced view its not a bad thing to have a competent person check that your safe, I remember the first time i got a semi auto the different layouts of each different make of gun is at first quite something to get used to & even now if i use a fellow shooter's gun at a range I will ask for a quick run through if its something a bit different ......BUT to answer my own post, the problem would be its a slippery slope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith RW Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Let's be clear about this. It is the job of the police to check if the applicant is unfit by reason of criminality, national security and ill health to hold a SGC - and that's all. Despite the high handed attitude and patronising tone of their letters they aren't "granting" anything to anyone. You have a perfect right to a SGC as long as the lawful reasons to refuse it don't apply to you. I've said before that the arrogance of the ACPO in believing that they can make up laws as they go along needs to be held in check and I for one am thankful that BASC is willing go into bat on our behalf. as above..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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