22 Rimfire Pistol Petition

[neillfrbs]

signed

[longspoon]

You were and still are allowed handguns in this part of the UK, and the security situation hasn't been great here over the last 30 years or so. The bad security situation here was seen as a good reason for more civilians to be armed not as a reason to tighten up the firearms controls.

In NI granted, won't happen In England....... I note the quote taken out of context !

Edited February 12, 2015 by longspoon

[Breastman]

Just sign the petition

[mick miller]

Almost half a million people marched to try and keep hunting, I was one of them. Did it make a jot of difference? No.

 

There is no real democracy, only the illusion of democracy. You're free to do and say as you please, provided it's what you're told to do and say. If you think there will be a repeal of .22 pistol shooting because a few thousand people sign a petition you're sadly mistaken. It's not even worth wasting your time over. The powers that be banned handguns, and that's that, can you really imagine any government repealing that decision? Political suicide given the tide of opinion from the misinformed and miseducated general public.

Edited February 13, 2015 by mick miller

[mick miller]

But I signed it anyway. Feckit.

[deadeye18]

Will happily sign but the "IM ALRIGHT JACKS" won't bother, I hope they won't wonder where there support I'd when they ban clay shooting.

+1 spot on!

[flyshooter]

But I signed it anyway. Feckit.

No one can say your not a try'er mick, never say die.

[snow white]

SIGNED

[deadeye18]

Strength through unity is whats needed.

[brett1985]

No shooting org input to this with maybe a 1/4 million members collectively, doesnt that tell you something? (Apart that is, from not facing contentious issues for their members.)

BASC and CA pushed this reasonable heavily last year when it first emerged. once the numbers slowed, so did the push from the org's.

[gemini52]

Signed,it would be nice to see 22 target pistols come back,but wont be holding my breath on this one.

[Bad Monkey]

Strength through unity is whats needed.

Spot on. United we stand, divided we fall! unfortunately too many people in the sport ready to bend over and grab their ankles. Or take chunks out of each other over the future of the sport on public forums, fuel for the antis'

[Mike737]

Signed. I do miss handgun shooting... Still got my reloading press etc... Obviously not for .22!

 

Mike.

[srspower]

Thanks to all those that have signed. I know many of you think this will be fruitless in terms of overturning the ban and I don't doubt you are right even if it gets to 100K and gets debated in Westminster. But this isn't what it's all about, for me anyway, this is about us coming together and organising.

 

The more often we do this, stand firm and make our point, the more likely things like this won't happen again and the more support we will have from the general public. Our future is in our own hands, divided we fall, together we can change things for the better.

[deadeye18]

well said

[Kes]

well said

+1 absoultely the right way to get shooters to pull together - I've signed.

[Vince Green]

.22 Target Pistol is an Olympic Sport, therefore the implication is we surely should have a right to compete alongside all the other countries.

[GHE]

I'm not even remotely interested in punching holes in a bit of paper with a .22 pistol, but that isn't the point - which is why I've signed.

[compo90]

British attitudes have changed, I don't know what to but we have changed, more insular, more I'm alright jack, more selfish and not as up for a fight as we used to be.

 

Even if I am going to lose a fight, I will still often fight if its the right thing to do........signing this petition is, for unity and group support.......

[demonwolf444]

I can absolutely guarantee that you will contribute nothing positive to the defense of the shooting community by not signing.

 

I could write a ton more here but whats the point. You either care or you don't but when its shotguns, or rifles or some other ludicrous restriction that might affect you, you will be damned please all those air gunners, clay shooters, and game shooters sign to represent your interests.

 

We need more unity.

 

I wouldn't own a pistol even if i could, just not my thing; but that's not the point of being a unified community - better representation is.

[Bemused]

British attitudes have changed, I don't know what to but we have changed, more insular, more I'm alright jack, more selfish and not as up for a fight as we used to be.

 

Even if I am going to lose a fight, I will still often fight if its the right thing to do........signing this petition is, for unity and group support.......

Same here, signed

[derfley]

I've signed. I must admit not because .22 pistol shooting particularly interests me, but because I believe those that want to hold them for sporting purposes should have my support, just the same as I would expect theirs with matters regarding sporting shotgun shooting.

 

As other here have said, unity matters, and can I add please join a shooting organisation it doesn't matter if your a join BASC the CA, NGO, CPSA or SACS, pick the one that suits you best, but join one and make sure your voice gets heard.

[notsosureshot]

Playing devils advocate, please hear me out. I cannot think of a single compelling reason to allow legal posession of .22lr pistols in the UK for the general public Outside of the Olympics, they have no useful application whatsoever in the UK, or arguably, anywhere in the world. Granting of their possesion has no benefit to the shooting community at large, outside of a niche sector of Olympic shooters (which I appreciate very much, but it is a relatively minor issue on the whole). Having shot countless pistol calibres over the years, I can safely say that .22lr is the least interesting of all.

 

.22lr is a tiny calibre which has virtually no practical applications when used from a pistol, outside maybe killing dangerous snakes with shotshells when out hunting in the Middle of Nowhere, USA. We British harp on about how it has the potential to kill or maim at a mile, but it is still a pathetically small calibre in the great scheme of things and over in the USA, such pistols are treated as kids toys, or pea shooters. They are a right of passage to daddy's 30-06 rifle. Which is the correct attitude for them, assuming basic safety has already been instilled, and mostly it is, in the US at least.

 

I am very conscious of firearm safety. But good safety standards should be applied to everything, be it a shotgun, rifle, pistol, crossbow, broom handle, axe, power saw or baby cot. Safety is not an issue unique to firearms.

 

Whether we like it or not, the ban on pistols of all calibres, could easily be justified by the fact they are more easily concealed, thus, could be used more conveniently when committing an offence, than a long barrelled equivalent (notice there is no mention of sawn off shotguns or machine guns etc.). The law completely disregards the fact that .22lr, unless used by some sort of professional assasin, it is unlikely to be fatal, although it would certainly smart a bit. However, I have yet to see a single compelling argument against the legislation from the pro gun folks, nor do I have one myself based on calibre alone.

 

I am being deliberately awkward but British shooters on the right side of the law, do not seem to understand that, in general, that we would never be allowed access to pistols in any form, until other lawful justifications come into the argument.

 

The judiciary, when considering the legal ownership of firearms, often fails to consider the ownership, by criminals, of sawn-off shotguns, machine guns or anything of that sort and how little impact losses by legal owners have on crime statistics in general. In short, criminals do not need legal owners to create an armoury of weapons. One point which I have always found really rather sad/amusing is the mention of Brocock type guns in police statistics. As if a criminal with any standing whatsoever, would ever actually stoop so low as to convert an air gun, when down the road you can buy a .38 for £100 or chop the barrels off a shotgun. They are hardly going to be worried about compliance with their certificate anyway? Perhaps a few kids converted the Brococks, but we're hardly talking about Al Capone and mass murder are we, yet legal owners of such airguns suffered as a result and nothing was done.

 

The preservation of a hobby is not sufficient for the enactment of legislation and this has been proven time and again. Even centuries old traditions, like fox hunting with hounds (you don't have to agree with it to get my point) have be regulated to the point where they cannot be practiced as intended. The simple fact of the matter is, the USA has pistols because self defence is a reason to own a firearm in most states of the USA. It is NOT a legal reason to own a firearm in the UK.

 

Until this changes, you are barking up the wrong tree entirely when it comes to pistol ownership.

 

Nibbling at the edges wont get people anywhere on this topic, in my opinion. The US constitution is based on English principles. If you wish to fight for anything meaningful, fight to reclaim those rights to self defence, not some pointless small calibre in pistol form. This is not a situation where slowly, slowly, catchy monkey would ever work. The entire reasoning behind firearms in the UK would need to be challenged directly.

 

Honestly, I am not sure I'd want firearms for self defence in the UK and as a pro-gun person in general, that places me in a dilemma. On one hand, criminals here do have guns available, but on the other, they do not seem to be considered as necessary in the commission of crime, and are not as freely available to criminals as in say, the USA, but may become so if firearms were more freely available to potential victims. It's a tough call, even for me as a supporter of gun rights, to argue against the reasons they are so restricted. I would not really want the UK to become like the USA.

 

Perhaps I'm old fashioned. I still have visions of a Victorian gentleman brandishing a pistol and arresting a thief, holding him until the police arrive blowing their whistle. Remember, it is only 100 years since a pocket pistol, often a Webley .455, was as much a part of a gentlemens daily dress as his tie. Why suddenly, did we become so generally irresponsible as a society in the eyes of the judiciary and our own, self elected, government?

 

I am conflicted about the entire subject but please, lets not beat around the bush and try to convince the judiciary that somehow the right to own a .22lr pistol is important to anyone aside from a tiny proportion of international class shooters.

 

Because, it isn't. There are wider issues at stake no matter which side of the fence you stand. If you have read my entire post then you need to decide which side of the fence you are on. Are you for self defence with firearms, or against? It really is that simple.

 

Opinions will vary on this forum, as the subject is centered on hunting. But I assume there is no reason we cannot have healthy debate.

 

I didn't sign the petition, I'll say that. Simply because I think it is pointless in so far as to detract from the wider issue of gun attitudes in the UK. Although I do agree with it in principle, I feel like it is a microscopic part of a more serious debate, which needs attention.

 

I am very much a community minded person and I would never object if someone elected to shoot .22lr as a hobby, I would actively support them. My point is, that you will never, ever, get legislation alterered on that basis alone. That is the sole reason I did not sign the petition. Rightly or wrongly, I feel it is misdirected sentiment and I try to be, pardon the pun, targeted, in my approach to such things.

 

If you made a petition for the right to self defence style community protection by individuals, one has to wonder, how many signatures that would attract? My guess? Not very many. And therein lies the whole problem in being a shooter in the UK, we don't stand together, irrespective of the support we may receive for our concerns. We are fragmented. Pigeon shooters, game shooters, target shooters, rifle shooters, pistol (LBR) shooters, bench rest shooters, clay shooters, farmers, home defense advocates. In the US, all of those people may be called "gun owners", or, arguably, NRA members. Think about it. It's not difficult to see why we struggle in making ourselves heard.

 

Long post, but sometimes I find it an emotive subject. On one hand I want to help the author of the petition, on the other, I feel it is utterly futile to try in such a manner.

I hope I have made some relevant points and I welcome feedback.

 

Cheers.

Edited February 26, 2015 by notsosureshot

[David BASC]

22 pistols are used for target shooting, not live quarry

 

To say that a repeal of the ban to allow 22 pistols again is of no benefit to the shooting community at large is simply not correct

 

Target sports are an integral part of UK shooting, we have some of the best target shooters in the world, and all shooters should stand together in my view.

[Mike737]

Playing devils advocate, please hear me out. I cannot think of a single compelling reason to allow legal posession of .22lr pistols in the UK for the general public Outside of the Olympics, they have no useful application whatsoever in the UK, or arguably, anywhere in the world. Granting of their possesion has no benefit to the shooting community at large, outside of a niche sector of Olympic shooters (which I appreciate very much, but it is a relatively minor issue on the whole). Having shot countless pistol calibres over the years, I can safely say that .22lr is the least interesting of all.

 

.22lr is a tiny calibre which has virtually no practical applications when used from a pistol, outside maybe killing dangerous snakes with shotshells when out hunting in the Middle of Nowhere, USA. We British harp on about how it has the potential to kill or maim at a mile, but it is still a pathetically small calibre in the great scheme of things and over in the USA, such pistols are treated as kids toys, or pea shooters. They are a right of passage to daddy's 30-06 rifle. Which is the correct attitude for them, assuming basic safety has already been instilled, and mostly it is, in the US at least.

 

I am very conscious of firearm safety. But good safety standards should be applied to everything, be it a shotgun, rifle, pistol, crossbow, broom handle, axe, power saw or baby cot. Safety is not an issue unique to firearms.

 

Whether we like it or not, the ban on pistols of all calibres, could easily be justified by the fact they are more easily concealed, thus, could be used more conveniently when committing an offence, than a long barrelled equivalent (notice there is no mention of sawn off shotguns or machine guns etc.). The law completely disregards the fact that .22lr, unless used by some sort of professional assasin, it is unlikely to be fatal, although it would certainly smart a bit. However, I have yet to see a single compelling argument against the legislation from the pro gun folks, nor do I have one myself based on calibre alone.

 

I am being deliberately awkward but British shooters on the right side of the law, do not seem to understand that, in general, that we would never be allowed access to pistols in any form, until other lawful justifications come into the argument.

 

The judiciary, when considering the legal ownership of firearms, often fails to consider the ownership, by criminals, of sawn-off shotguns, machine guns or anything of that sort and how little impact losses by legal owners have on crime statistics in general. In short, criminals do not need legal owners to create an armoury of weapons. One point which I have always found really rather sad/amusing is the mention of Brocock type guns in police statistics. As if a criminal with any standing whatsoever, would ever actually stoop so low as to convert an air gun, when down the road you can buy a .38 for £100 or chop the barrels off a shotgun. They are hardly going to be worried about compliance with their certificate anyway? Perhaps a few kids converted the Brococks, but we're hardly talking about Al Capone and mass murder are we, yet legal owners of such airguns suffered as a result and nothing was done.

 

The preservation of a hobby is not sufficient for the enactment of legislation and this has been proven time and again. Even centuries old traditions, like fox hunting with hounds (you don't have to agree with it to get my point) have be regulated to the point where they cannot be practiced as intended. The simple fact of the matter is, the USA has pistols because self defence is a reason to own a firearm in most states of the USA. It is NOT a legal reason to own a firearm in the UK.

 

Until this changes, you are barking up the wrong tree entirely when it comes to pistol ownership.

 

Nibbling at the edges wont get people anywhere on this topic, in my opinion. The US constitution is based on English principles. If you wish to fight for anything meaningful, fight to reclaim those rights to self defence, not some pointless small calibre in pistol form. This is not a situation where slowly, slowly, catchy monkey would ever work. The entire reasoning behind firearms in the UK would need to be challenged directly.

 

Honestly, I am not sure I'd want firearms for self defence in the UK and as a pro-gun person in general, that places me in a dilemma. On one hand, criminals here do have guns available, but on the other, they do not seem to be considered as necessary in the commission of crime, and are not as freely available to criminals as in say, the USA, but may become so if firearms were more freely available to potential victims. It's a tough call, even for me as a supporter of gun rights, to argue against the reasons they are so restricted. I would not really want the UK to become like the USA.

 

Perhaps I'm old fashioned. I still have visions of a Victorian gentleman brandishing a pistol and arresting a thief, holding him until the police arrive blowing their whistle. Remember, it is only 100 years since a pocket pistol, often a Webley .455, was as much a part of a gentlemens daily dress as his tie. Why suddenly, did we become so generally irresponsible as a society in the eyes of the judiciary and our own, self elected, government?

 

I am conflicted about the entire subject but please, lets not beat around the bush and try to convince the judiciary that somehow the right to own a .22lr pistol is important to anyone aside from a tiny proportion of international class shooters.

 

Because, it isn't. There are wider issues at stake no matter which side of the fence you stand. If you have read my entire post then you need to decide which side of the fence you are on. Are you for self defence with firearms, or against? It really is that simple.

 

Opinions will vary on this forum, as the subject is centered on hunting. But I assume there is no reason we cannot have healthy debate.

 

I didn't sign the petition, I'll say that. Simply because I think it is pointless in so far as to detract from the wider issue of gun attitudes in the UK. Although I do agree with it in principle, I feel like it is a microscopic part of a more serious debate, which needs attention.

 

I am very much a community minded person and I would never object if someone elected to shoot .22lr as a hobby, I would actively support them. My point is, that you will never, ever, get legislation alterered on that basis alone. That is the sole reason I did not sign the petition. Rightly or wrongly, I feel it is misdirected sentiment and I try to be, pardon the pun, targeted, in my approach to such things.

 

If you made a petition for the right to self defence style community protection by individuals, one has to wonder, how many signatures that would attract? My guess? Not very many. And therein lies the whole problem in being a shooter in the UK, we don't stand together, irrespective of the support we may receive for our concerns. We are fragmented. Pigeon shooters, game shooters, target shooters, rifle shooters, pistol (LBR) shooters, bench rest shooters, clay shooters, farmers, home defense advocates. In the US, all of those people may be called "gun owners", or, arguably, NRA members. Think about it. It's not difficult to see why we struggle in making ourselves heard.

 

Long post, but sometimes I find it an emotive subject. On one hand I want to help the author of the petition, on the other, I feel it is utterly futile to try in such a manner.

 

I hope I have made some relevant points and I welcome feedback.

 

Cheers.

So go on then, support them and sign! You know you want to...

 

Mike