Rewulf Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Hi there ,my first post! And unfortunately a request for some advice. Around the middle of last year I was granted my first SGC and shortly afterwards my FAC. All good so far,however beginning of December I received a phone call from Notts firearms licencing saying that they had received a letter from my doctor expressing concern about possible excessive drinking. I was asked to lodge all firearms and sec 1 ammunition with an RFD and send back both certs,pending the results of a liver function test. I complied immediately and they had the results of the (clear) test posted to them just before Christmas. I emailed them to confirm and asked that, for the record, they know that I had not seen or spoken to my doctor in over 18 months. I have since found out that the doctor I spoke to then ,had long since left and my new doctor had sent the information based on notes left on my medical record (I have never met my 'new' doctor) I called my new doctor and asked him what he wrote in the letter,and he vaguely mentioned something about 50 units a week! I remember saying something to my old doctor about 2 or 3 pints on a night occasionally,does that make 50 units!? But that was long before I even thought about applying,and I drink only very occasionally now. Anyway ,my question is ,how long should I give them before it gets sorted,Ive called them once and emailed them once,to little effect. Ive also emailed BASC (no reply as yet ) of which I am a member. Some of my shooting friends are saying ,make a complaint ,but I dont want to upset the apple cart being such a new cert holder. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 a friend of mine had his taken from him, that was a few years ago and he is still having trouble getting them back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linny Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 i would get on the phone to basc now rather than wait might put you at ease a bit i would not be happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Bearing in mind ,my certs have not been revoked. Plus the home office guideline on this matter says "10.64 Where police forces have serious concerns about a certificate holder’s continued access to firearms prompt action must be taken to ensure no preventable harm is caused to public safety. This may involve the certificate holder being invited to voluntarily surrender their firearms, ammunition and certificate pending a review of their continued suitability to be issued with a firearm certificate. Such a review should be carried out expeditiously, with the certificate holder informed of the progress. Should the enquiry have the result that there is no danger to the public safety, the firearms, ammunition and certificates should be returned as soon as practicable. Care should be taken in the transport and storage of guns concerned, which may have considerable monetary value in some cases." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 i would get on the phone to basc now rather than wait might put you at ease a bit i would not be happy Im not happy at all,I have done nothing wrong. The only good thing is my RFD is also club sec ,so he brings my stuff to the range and I transferred my shotgun to my friend who brings it to the clay shoots. I think I will ring BASC but I only messaged them 4 days ago,they might be busy. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I would never use email in such circumstances. Get on the phone now and speak to a member of the BASC firearms team and, by no means least, your firearms licensing manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 i would get on the phone to basc now rather than wait might put you at ease a bit i would not be happy Im not happy at all,I have done nothing wrong. The only good thing is my RFD is also club sec ,so he brings my stuff to the range and I transferred my shotgun to my friend who brings it to the clay shoots. I think I will ring BASC but I only messaged them 4 days ago,they might be busy. Cheers Not only would I be complaining to my Cc but also Basc, 4 days and no reply is disgusting service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Bearing in mind ,my certs have not been revoked. Plus the home office guideline on this matter says "10.64 Where police forces have serious concerns about a certificate holder’s continued access to firearms prompt action must be taken to ensure no preventable harm is caused to public safety. This may involve the certificate holder being invited to voluntarily surrender their firearms, ammunition and certificate pending a review of their continued suitability to be issued with a firearm certificate. Such a review should be carried out expeditiously, with the certificate holder informed of the progress. Should the enquiry have the result that there is no danger to the public safety, the firearms, ammunition and certificates should be returned as soon as practicable. Care should be taken in the transport and storage of guns concerned, which may have considerable monetary value in some cases." You need to contact your shooting org' by phone, quoting the above HO guidance. Personally I'd be writing a strongly worded letter to my GP, and inform him that you're sending a copy to the BMA also. I think your GP is bang out of order considering he has never met you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 01244573010 basc firearms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 blimey..I would go see the doctor and have a copy of the letter made and then take a view on whether it was reasonable.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 That's a very harsh assessment of you, I hope that you get sorted. Technically, by your statement you said that on a night (which can mean at best 1 or at worst every night) that you might have 2-3 pints. If you had 3 pints of strong ale a day all 7 days then you would be looking at 50 units a week. It's likely just a case of your doctor misconstruing what you said and noting down that '3 nights on a night' or similar? New doctor must have seen that and though every night. This is a good example of why whenever someone official writes anything about me I am most careful in my replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Chase the BASC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Thanks for all your replies boys ,Ive not had time to call BASC today ,but Ill do it tomorrow and keep you updated. Technically speaking it has only been 2 calendar months since I got the phone call from firearms,and with christmas in the way ect. So I wasnt too sure how long to leave it really. You still get some of the old school shooters who believe an FAC grant should take no longer than 2 weeks You tend to get the impression youre being strung along by them sometimes,but hopefully common sense prevails and I get them back soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brown Sauce Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 As above, I'd certainly be making an appointment to see the GP who completed the report and also ask to see your medical records, as it's not unheard of them to be incorrect, plus the GP could be an anti. The Current Mrs BS is a GP and her take on is it that they can only go on the most recent records, but it usually stems from stress, anxiety and depression. Good luck and I hope you get it resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 hope you get it sorted out soon, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian28 Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 [Around the middle of last year I was granted my first SGC and shortly afterwards my FAC. All good so far,however beginning of December I received a phone call from Notts firearms licencing saying that they had received a letter from my doctor expressing concern about possible excessive drinking.] A letter from a man who has never met you, BASC and chat with solicitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Are doctors required to inform police if they have a concern about someone's drinking. ? If so its news to me, all it will do is encourage people to lie to their doctors regarding the amount they drink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 As above, I'd certainly be making an appointment to see the GP who completed the report and also ask to see your medical records, as it's not unheard of them to be incorrect, plus the GP could be an anti. The Current Mrs BS is a GP and her take on is it that they can only go on the most recent records, but it usually stems from stress, anxiety and depression. Good luck and I hope you get it resolved. When the investigation into the Cumbria shootings was happening and they were talking about 'medical markers' being put on GP files for certificate holders i sent SSAE letters to all the doctors at my surgery and asked them if they thought current firearms legislation was too weak, about right or too restrictive. Only one bothered to respond using the letter i'd enclosed (he said it was about right), one rang me to weasle out of responding at all (because she was "worried" about how that information was going to be used - ironic!!) and i got nothing from the other 6 doctors, so i changed my GP surgery! Are doctors required to inform police if they have a concern about someone's drinking. ? If so its news to me, all it will do is encourage people to lie to their doctors regarding the amount they drink. I don't think theres a 'requirement' but they can contact them if they have a concern/think the police should be aware of something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Are doctors required to inform police if they have a concern about someone's drinking. ? If so its news to me, all it will do is encourage people to lie to their doctors regarding the amount they drink. ACPO and the BMA have been in consultation for some considerable time on this very issue. I believe that ACPO has written to all CC's requesting that when a certificate is granted or renewed they write to the relevant GP advising them of this fact and instructing the GP to advise if there is any cause for concern. ACPO is vigorously pursuing this policy. I quote from ACPO FELWG minutes............. 4.3 c) GP Letters The wording of the letter is currently under review to address some concerns. As some revocations have been implemented in Hampshire as a result of letters from GPs, DCC Marsh’s view remains that it is a necessary and proportionate disclosure of information and therefore an extrememly valuable tool in protecting the public from forseeable harm. DCC Marsh asked reps to continue to forward him examples of positive feedback as a result of the letters. Action: Mr Stilwell to forward his example of positive feedback to DCC Marsh. 4.4 It was brought to DCC Marsh’s attention that there were concerns from shooting organisations regarding the security of the letter within GP practices. DCC Marsh responded by saying he was not aware of any compromise of security in these circumstances and as such would not consider the withdrawal of the use of the letters on this basis. Action: All regional reps to liaise with forces to ensure that letters are being issued to GPs. DCC Marsh to be made aware of those forces not issuing the letters for him to liaise with Chief Officers directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Quick update ,have spoken to BASC,and have been advised to give licencing another month to continue theyre investigations,as the usual time to do these things is around 3 months. As a matter of interest ,intemperate behavior,as in :drinking excessively,drug use or the like is obviously and quite rightly a good reason to revoke,or refuse to grant/renew SGC or FAC. However the HO guidelines on this are set at 30 units of alcohol weekly. So,2 pints of 'ordinary ' strength beer at roughly 2.3 units each a night puts you over this limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Quick update ,have spoken to BASC,and have been advised to give licencing another month to continue theyre investigations,as the usual time to do these things is around 3 months. As a matter of interest ,intemperate behavior,as in :drinking excessively,drug use or the like is obviously and quite rightly a good reason to revoke,or refuse to grant/renew SGC or FAC. However the HO guidelines on this are set at 30 units of alcohol weekly. So,2 pints of 'ordinary ' strength beer at roughly 2.3 units each a night puts you over this limit. That is most interesting actually, thanks for that. I hope that everything gets sorted for you. I know a lot of people who share a bottle of el vino each night with their wives etc... That can't be far off that limit. I stick to only Friday night and Saturday night now days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalahari Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) If you really want to make trouble ask your doctor for a copy of the letter and the evidence that he had never seen you before he sent the letter, you wish to send them to the General Medical Council! The BMA are the doctors trade union, but the GMC can investigate his behaviour and strike him off if he has acted unreasonably. Interesting to see what he says. He might even withdraw it. David. Edited February 12, 2015 by Kalahari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39TDS Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 If the truth be told I would think I was way over those guidelines, along with an awful lot of other folk no doubt. I never touch any of my guns if I have had any alcohol at all. I think it is usual for a doctor to double what you tell them anyway. Last time I was asked he tried to say double what I told him. Next time the doctor asks how much I drink I might say none. Best of luck getting them back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 . However the HO guidelines on this are set at 30 units of alcohol weekly. So,2 pints of 'ordinary ' strength beer at roughly 2.3 units each a night puts you over this limit. Wow, that's something I didn't know. I do know however, a lot of local lads who would be well over that limit on a weekly basis, all shooters and two of them coppers. We're roost shooting together on the 21st, will let them know that if talking to GP's they need to be a little frugal with the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superspark Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Good luck chap with your inquires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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