Thunderbird Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 Another example of the way we shooters are treated badly by those is authority. It should of course be the reverse but that will never happen. SWMBO and myself were at a Care Plan meeting for our son (cancer) and having gone through his issues/needs we were asked 'how are you two?' even though the needless delays and poor communication had, at times, had us crawling up the walls our response was ok. And in saying that we were both wary of a new (to us) GP and my gun licence. The tendency is of course to lie about alcohol intake, state of mind etc as otherwise you never know who to trust. In truth I don't think the stresses we suffered had had undue effect on us but anything other than a positive response might have been interpreted differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 From the spoken word to the written word. Paid a visit to my Gp regarding pain management and changed medication as it was playing havoc with my digestive system, he then wanted me to go and have a fasting blood test for cholesterol levels, no previous history,Any other time it would be no problem but i was still rough with the old meds, so i said can i leave it for a couple of weeks until i felt better, he said yes that will be ok. He then typed out on his computer in capitals and in red PATIENT REFUSED BLOOD TEST I was not happy and told him so and he changed it. I changed my GP after that. Sadly, the way the system works is that your medical records follow you. So, whatever your previous GP wrote will now be on your records with your current GP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Sorry for the delay responding to the email, very heavy workload at the moment so i am afraid phone calls are taking priority, but if you have any problems getting through just send me a PM and i will do all I can to help David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwr Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Once sorted (I'm assuming certs returned in a month) I'd change GP as they should have spoke to you first in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHE Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 My take on this is that the police have just acted correctly, and in line with their duty. No doubt it seems very heavy handed to you, and I don't blame you if you feel that way, but they do have to act on the information they receive. Your real issue is with the GP, but my view on this is that he is in a position of power over you at the moment and it won't help to antagonise him unti this has been sorted out. If it ends up with the police revoking your certificates, you do have the right of appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Thank you Mr Edwards,I have been reading of your sons case via your blog with great interest,and I sincerely hope you get the outcome you are hoping for .Good luck. The police firearms licencing have without a doubt acted properly and within the guidelines,my request for advice concerned the amount of time it would take to process the case,not why they acted as they did. For a while I thought it unjust, as having quite rigorously checked my background,suitability interviews and 2 different FEO visits they seemed satisfied I was responsible enough to issue my certs. Then when receiving (old) information from a man I had never met that I might enjoy more than the recommended 3 units of alcohol per day, and might run amok was ,I thought a little insulting. But ,like I say,I understand they have a duty to protect the public,and to an extent ,the credibility of firearms licencing, ie: don't give guns back to people with a recorded history of alcohol abuse/violence. However they are only human,and so we are constantly told ,understaffed. If this is the case,why don't they employ more staff,so that grants/renewals are processed quicker and more thoroughly ? Cases such as mine could be looked at in more detail,and if there are issues,a more informed assessment could be made,rather than 'go and get a liver function test then we shall have a long think about it' I didn't actually want this to sound bitter,so Im going to stop now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHE Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Well, I think that most of them just err on the side of caution these days, and try to avoid the monumental cockups of the past where they have issued certificates to people who weren't even fit to hold a TV licence. I think that the issue of understaffing is very real, and although police forces seem to have plenty of money available for Assistant Chief Constables, Acting Assistant Chief Constables, public relations officers, their assistants and their fancy cars, that's where the priorities seem to lie and they maybe spend too much on that and not enough on front line policing and on peripheral services such as their licensing departments - but there's nothing that we can do about that. Leaving aside my son's case, which involves North Yorkshire Police, most of my other experiences have been with West Yorkshire and I've always found them to be very helpful. Might it be worth just having a friendly word with your FEO to see whether it can be speeded up a bit? If they understand that this is affecting your life, it may help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Then when receiving (old) information from a man I had never met that I might enjoy more than the recommended 3 units of alcohol per day, and might run amok Have you just added the last bit on or was that what was actually said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Might it be worth just having a friendly word with your FEO to see whether it can be speeded up a bit? If they understand that this is affecting your life, it may help. I did try to talk to my FEO right at the beginning ,but my email was intercepted by the case investigator who reiterated that I must lodge all guns and ammunition immediately and send my certs back. I was sort of expecting to be called in for an interview after they had received the liver function test results,but the only contact Ive had since is when Ive contacted them to ask how its going. I would like to put my side of the story to them,but as far as I know the report has been compiled and its waiting for a decision from the firearms manager. BASC have said to give them more time ,so I will. As far as my GP is concerned,it took a week for him to come back to me ,when I asked what he had actually said. Even then he was vague and didnt seem to want to tell me word for word what he had put in the letter. I will get a copy of the letter if this goes the wrong way for me,and I will appeal if I get revoked. As you say ,if anyone has been harsh on my character then it is the doctor,but for now we shall keep him onside,I have asked him to alter my records to show that my alcohol intake is less than 20 months ago. What I'd like to see is my certs drop through the letterbox with a covering letter saying sorry for the inconvenience But what is more likely is another month wait, then an interview date set,then another wait while they think about it some more.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Have you just added the last bit on or was that what was actually said? No that wasnt said ,but why would they want you to lodge all guns with an RFD if they didnt think you were some kind of danger to the public or the peace? Why not wait till the LFT results came through and if they showed alcohol abuse ,then remove all guns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 No that wasnt said ,but why would they want you to lodge all guns with an RFD if they didnt think you were some kind of danger to the public or the peace? Why not wait till the LFT results came through and if they showed alcohol abuse ,then remove all guns? I would imagine because, quite rightly, they ere on the side of caution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) I would imagine because, quite rightly, they ere on the side of caution. Of course,but the fact is they had already issued the tickets. Where was the caution in issuing them without receiving the doctors report? I had already been in possession of the guns for some months before they received the report. They knew I had been involved with competitive air rifle field target shooting for 15 years. I set the course and tutor novices at my clay club. I instruct probationary members at my FAC club. I am a 47 year old business owner who regularly raises money for charitable causes through my masonic duties.A lot of them to do with shooting. But ,because I told my doctor 20 months ago that I sometimes have 3 pints on a night ,that makes me a possible risk? Like I say, I'd love the opportunity to put my side forward. I hope I actually get the chance. Edited February 18, 2015 by Rewulf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Of course,but the fact is they had already issued the tickets. Where was the caution in issuing them without receiving the doctors report? I had already been in possession of the guns for some months before they received the report. They knew I had been involved with competitive air rifle field target shooting for 15 years. I set the course and tutor novices at my clay club. I instruct probationary members at my FAC club. I am a 47 year old business owner who regularly raises money for charitable causes through my masonic duties.A lot of them to do with shooting. But ,because I told my doctor 20 months ago that I sometimes have 3 pints on a night ,that makes me a possible risk? Like I say, I'd love the opportunity to put my side forward. I hope I actually get the chance. I presume that is because the police are now writing to GP's post grant/renewal asking them to make comment should they have any concerns. To me this seems preferable to a cumpulsory medical report for all applications/renewals pre grant. This also gives the GP the oppertunity to contact the police at any time post grant should they have concerns regarding the patients sutability to possess. Whilst I do feel for you, the police seem to be following the new protocol correctly. It is your GP who seems to have overstepped the mark and it is he whom you should be taking to task. Personally, I would instruct an experianced, specialist firearms solicitor, with a view to him taking the matter up with the head of licensing and perhaps ypor GP. The cost would not be outrageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Your having all this trouble and your a mason........ Outrageous Seriously hope its resolved soon for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Whilst I do feel for you, the police seem to be following the new protocol correctly. It is your GP who seems to have overstepped the mark and it is he whom you should be taking to task. Personally, I would instruct an experianced, specialist firearms solicitor, with a view to him taking the matter up with the head of licensing and perhaps ypor GP. The cost would not be outrageous. Your having all this trouble and your a mason........ Outrageous You're in the wrong lodge; wouldn't happen round here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) The fact of the matter is,that they are covering their tracks & that includes unfortunatly being now heavy handed,Durham quoted that the medical form reason was because on recent renewals,holders withheld medical information.NO THE DID NOT, Durham where simply not doing their job right and became complacent and couldn't be ***** to check.And when Atherton went nutty they got their ***** kicked,that was proven on the Athererton inquest.(for God sake two officers stood in the dock and said they haven't heard of the HIome office guidelines)We all know that you can not control or licence NUTTY ,what you can do is not allow them acces to fire arms( prob use a knife or something else ).What worries me most and it will be the end of shooting in the not to distant future is the authorities are not suitable to operate the licensing .Even after the recent event ,Cumbria ,Atherton ect, "different force areas seem to be doing their own thing" Edited February 19, 2015 by Davyo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I agree with davyo. Too much variation in force areas..... Its about time we had a national licensing team, take it away from the police, it could easily be outsourced and simplified...... Its very few checks in reality and as I have argued before and as we have seen, they can always revoke so why don't we have life licences to save money....... All shooters are on the police national computer so if we come to police attention they know and can review/revoke...... Our doctors know we hold a licence so if they have cause can raise concerns...... Why do we need to renew, the fail safes are built in already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 You're in the wrong lodge; wouldn't happen round here. Ha ha ,its probably not something I would mention when applying, as could be misconstrued ,however the charity shoot thing will be if I have to appeal. My lodge is full of accountants unfortunately and one retired police officer,but I don't think it would be appropriate to 'have a word' when I encounter officers from other lodges,I shouldn't have to anyway. Couldn't agree more with Dayvo and Compo ,being granted a ticket makes you a much more responsible person,in the knowledge that even the smallest misdemeanor endangers your sport. I was told by my FEO a couple of speeding tickets ,or using a mobile whist driving,running a red light could easily end up with a revokation as it shows a disregard for the law,hence a possible disregard for firearms law ? Regarding my doctor,he probably thought he was doing the right thing,if he has acted outside his remit then,its quite probable he didn't know what his remit was. I would have hoped that before he sent out potentially damaging info ,he could have asked to see me and try and gauge what kind of person I was and come to a balanced decision ,rather than read some old notes. But ,my belief is that most GPs are so overworked they simply cant spend the time on individual assessments but rather use a flow chart style of diagnosis. I have seen,and Im sure many on here have too,terrible mis diagnoses, that due to funding , time issues or sometimes out right incompetence have led to tragic events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal22lr Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 From personal experience, firstly would speak to GP, with Practice Manager present if possible. Explain what havoc they have caused, requested they (practice) withdraw incorrect information. If your a BACS member David has suggested you pm him. At the end of the day if your PA, say you can't have your firearms back, you can use Crown Court. I know this sounds drastic, however, this is the best way of dealing with mistakes by your force/GP etc. When I applied for FAC,force requested medical opinion from GP. GP was anti and asked me this question. " I think you would use your firearms to stop someone breaking into your home, if your wife was at home, wouldn't you? No I replied, I would batter them with a cricket bat. Based on my response the GP wrote a letter stating that as I was on 150 mg per day of medication for work related anxiety, and had been taking medication for two years. Force refused my application outright. Appealed decision via Crown Court, obtained opinion from senior GP that I was of sound mind and not mentally unstable, supplied letter to Firearms Manager, with covering letter requesting reconsideration, copy to Crown Court, outcome FAC approved within 14 days. Don't give up- keep going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carman06 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Lincolnshire firearms has been outsourced to G4S since 2012 and this is why were looking at 16 weeks for anything to be done. I'm only 3 weeks into my initial application but everything I'm told or read says it's going to be end of July if I'm lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 What I'd like to see is my certs drop through the letterbox with a covering letter saying sorry for the inconvenience Which I am extremely happy to tell you ,is what should happen in the next few days. Ive just had the FLM on the phone apologising profusely for the delay and telling me they should arrive by Monday. He told me what I drink is not really his concern ,but his underlings followed procedure (as they should) So common sense prevails! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drut Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Which I am extremely happy to tell you ,is what should happen in the next few days. Ive just had the FLM on the phone apologising profusely for the delay and telling me they should arrive by Monday. He told me what I drink is not really his concern ,but his underlings followed procedure (as they should) So common sense prevails! Which I am extremely happy to tell you ,is what should happen in the next few days. Ive just had the FLM on the phone apologising profusely for the delay and telling me they should arrive by Monday. He told me what I drink is not really his concern ,but his underlings followed procedure (as they should) So common sense prevails! Good result,pleased for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 It's nice that the real he-men of PW deign to regale us with their manly stories of never needing to go to the doctor. It's so heartening to know that we can be preached at by our betters. Thank you, thank you so much. I hope that one day when you are seriously ill and need a doctor's help you too will benefit from such wise guidance. I see my doctor if I believe that I have a potential health issue that is beyond self-help, if I lie to him about my lifestyle habits all will be revealed at the autopsy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Good news; worth celebrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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