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UK Legal Sig Sauer P226 - Icon Arms iP226


Clc0608
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I know there's been some interest in the iP226 http://www.iconarms.com/iP226.html and on Saturday I got the chance to get my hands on one and put it to the test https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v...94&pnref=story https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=732643780183768&theater. I will be doing a full review video on the gun with lots more footage of it being shot but for now, for those that are interested, I've got a full overview of the gun from the owner of Icon Arms and the creator of the iP226 Mike Jakes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ3F6P56LoE.

These guns are available now and retail for £1350, in terms of accuracy this card https://www.facebook.com/EnglishShootingUK/photos/pb.557618307686317.-2207520000.1425296778./731953526919460/?type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-xpa1%2Fv%2Ft1.0-9%2F10671470_731953526919460_515322989440714890_n.jpg%3Foh%3Dc67d84aeb70b36e64c590754e5d91c19%26oe%3D554C7EBD&size=960%2C720&fbid=731953526919460 was shot at 20m standing with iron sights.

Edited by Clc0608
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.22LR P226s retail for under $500 in the US which equates to around £350. Add in price of a longer barrel, barrel shroud and a bit of metal hanging off the grip and where do we get to £1000 more? It's a great idea and looks to be a decent LBP (though it did seem to not cycle properly in the video of you using it) but it's just a hugely expensive price to pay. Not knocking the product or the seller, just a rant because I'm aggrieved at the way shooters are bent over in general in the UK.


I should add that it is good to see a seller looking to add some variety and fair play to them for bringing the thing to market in the UK.

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.22LR P226s retail for under $500 in the US which equates to around £350. Add in price of a longer barrel, barrel shroud and a bit of metal hanging off the grip and where do we get to £1000 more? It's a great idea and looks to be a decent LBP (though it did seem to not cycle properly in the video of you using it) but it's just a hugely expensive price to pay. Not knocking the product or the seller, just a rant because I'm aggrieved at the way shooters are bent over in general in the UK.

I should add that it is good to see a seller looking to add some variety and fair play to them for bringing the thing to market in the UK.

 

I think we've just got used to this now in the UK. The problem with equating $ to £ is that it's never the exchange rate, a $400 S&W 15-22 is over £600 here, they slap 20% tax on everything bought in and everything firearm related is expensive to import. If the Sig is $500 I would expect the equated cost over here would be more £700. The TSC 1911 LBP were £750 at one point and I believe they're under $300 in the States. It's just how it is, I'm not happy about it but there's very little you can do.

 

The cycling problems seen are due to that gun having not been bedded in, he had two that had just come off production. Mike said that it can take around 1000 rounds for the gun to get moving freely, they had an older one there which cycled perfectly and despite Mikes word of warning about Minimag I managed to put 200 rounds no problem with it.

Edited by Clc0608
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This was from Mike the guy from Icon Arms on another forum regarding the rip off or otherwise of the price of their LBP's.

 

 

 

 

I have looked at the forum link that you sent to me and I have a couple of comments regarding some of the follow-up posts therein. Regarding the cost of the pistol, due to UK law we cannot import a pistol from Sig Sauer then convert it, as once any firearm has been assembled in prohibited form it retains its Section 5 prohibited status even if it complies with the technical requirements of Section 1. This means that we have to import components from Sig Sauer then assemble the pistols for the first time here in the UK as Section 1 firearms which is an expensive route: if you had to recreate the car that you currently drive by building it yourself from parts sourced from the main dealer rather than driving it off their forecourt, it would certainly cost you a great deal more.

 

To be completely candid, although I am always fairly dismissive about statements about the comparative cost of firearms and parts in the US, they continue to frustrate me as they are usually made by people that have absolutely no understanding of what is required to procure those items and bring them into the UK legally. They ignore the fact that unless you are a permanent or semi-permanent resident of the same state in which the FFL is located, most FFLs will not sell you a firearm or controlled component in person (they cannot even sell to a US citizen who is domiciled out of state). It is however possible to import remotely from the US and other countries (as we do at Icon Arms) but this requires an export licence. This has a cost of upwards of $375 and an export agent will be required as most manufacturers and virtually all shops do not want to deal with the bureaucracy surrounding firearms export from the US. An export licence will not be granted without first having an appropriate UK import licence in place (of which there are two types). Most US export agents levy an administration charge of 5% of the value of any purchase order and have a minimum shipping charge of $350. Firearms and parts are often subject to additional ITAR or US Department of Commerce export restrictions for which additional permissions and licences are necessary (both having additional associated costs). As well as complete firearms, components like magazines, receivers, barrels, triggers, muzzle devices and optics fall within these areas. To import firearms and pressure-bearing components into the UK, a UK import licence is required from the Department of Business, Innovation and Skills. To import a pistol (or other prohibited firearm) Home Office authority (i.e. Section 5) is required before the grant of a Specific Import Licence is considered by BIS, and Section 5 authority is very closely controlled for fairly obvious reasons. Many of these statements also overlook that travel to the US usual involves a return flight which is usually several hundred pounds from even the bucket shop carriers. Once the firearm is landed in the UK it becomes subject to import duty and VAT, the latter being levied on the total cost including shipping. The importing of firearms and components into the UK is closely monitored by the National Crime Agency (NCA, formerly known as the Serious Crime Squad) and visits to importers by their officers are common. The reality is that most individuals that make these types of uninformed comments cannot nor ever will be allowed to import firearms in the UK and whilst there are importers in the UK that charge extortionate prices for imported firearms and parts (and we all know who they are), Icon Arms like many other businesses operates on very modest margins: We only source the highest quality firearms and parts from the best suppliers worldwide rather than those of lesser quality or sourced from weaker economies. Whilst our products are typically towards the higher end of the price range in any of the sectors in which we compete, we differentiate our products on quality rather than price and they always provide value as a result.

Edited by mr smith
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This was from Mike the guy from Icon Arms on another forum regarding the rip off or otherwise of the price of their LBP's.

 

This is exactly what Mike said to me on Saturday. After spending a day with the chap you understand that he's not in it for the money, he's not even in it for his own personal shooting, he's in it to put smiles on other peoples faces. He's got Section 5 and owns multiple 9mm Glocks and Sigs, he doesn't need the iP226 to go out and shoot a pistol because he can already do that, what he wants to do is provide a product so that any FAC holder can go out and shoot a pistol.

 

If anyone is in any doubt about the pistol or the company or Mike, then go to one of his range days because you'll find it impossible to not have complete faith in all three afterwards.

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No matter what anybody says about it, £1350 for a .22 pistol is ridiculous. Especially a long barrelled version. Any kind of long barrelled pistol in england seems to command a premium, even though they are blatantly not worth their asking prices. Not having a dig at retailers btw. Your laws are too oppressive.

Edited by Cannon
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I have looked at the forum link that you sent to me and I have a couple of comments regarding some of the follow-up posts therein. Regarding the cost of the pistol, due to UK law we cannot import a pistol from Sig Sauer then convert it, as once any firearm has been assembled in prohibited form it retains its Section 5 prohibited status even if it complies with the technical requirements of Section 1

 

Can the handgun be ordered from SIG etc and arrange for it to be supplied striped down and not assembled. Or do you need to import a handgun that has never being assembled in the factory. Seems stupid that you can't import the handgun and convert it, what's the difference in bringing it in parts and then assembling it.

Edited by ordnance
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Can the handgun be ordered from SIG etc and arrange for it to be supplied striped down and not assembled. Or do you need to import a handgun that has never being assembled in the factory. Seems stupid that you can't import the handgun and convert it, what's the difference in bringing it in parts and then assembling it.

 

It is stupid, the whole reason why we need to create a LBP is stupid in the first place but there's no changing that. Sig is a mass production company and I would imagine that Icon can't buy in the quantities to make Sig interested in doing that.

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No matter what anybody says about it, £1350 for a .22 pistol is ridiculous. Especially a long barrelled version. Any kind of long barrelled pistol in england seems to command a premium

Possibly but if that's all that can be owned. As was explained its the process that has to happen to make a LBP that causes the price to rise. And if people are willing to pay the extra that's up to them.

 

 

Your laws are too oppressive.

Apart from handguns they are no more oppressive than ours.

Edited by ordnance
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Sig is a mass production company and I would imagine that Icon can't buy in the quantities to make Sig interested in doing that.

 

That doesn't answer my question.

 

 

Can the handgun be ordered from SIG etc and arrange for it to be supplied striped down and not assembled. Or do you need to import a handgun that has never being assembled in the factory

Is it legal if the handgun is supplied dismantled, or would that still be illegal.

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I fully understand the obvious that has been written above. If LBPs are all that can be owned, you'd be a fool to believe that someone somewhere isn't capitalising on it. We are lucky here in Ireland to be able to legally own proper pistols. Those who wish to pistol shoot in england must make the best of a bad situation, but at what expense? And not just financial.

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We are lucky here in Ireland to be able to legally own proper pistols

Not for long in the Republic of Ireland.

 

Minister Ahern said: "This Act is about halting the emergence of a gun-culture in Ireland. Experience in other countries shows us that any relaxation of controls on gun ownership or registration very quickly results in dramatic growth in firearms with many longer term negative downstream consequences. I will not allow that happen on my watch."

The Act introduces the most far-reaching gun control measures since the foundation of the state including:

· A ban on handguns.

· A ban on ‘practical shooting’ (a self styled extreme shooting activity).

· Ministerial powers to prohibit particular firearms or categories of firearms in a precise manner.

· A requirement for referees, background medical checks and standards for the safe keeping of guns in the home for all firearms licence applicants;

· Radically tightened licensing procedures for the renewal of currently licensed guns;

· New regulations governing target shooting Clubs and Ranges.

· Those involved in target shooting (rifle and pistol) will be subject to a more rigorous authorisation procedure by the Garda Commissioner;

· A new three year licence with outsourced fee collection and licence production resulting in greater efficiency and improved customer service at garda station level;

· New guidelines on licensing matters, published by the Garda Commissioner, which will be available to the public.

Minister Ahern continued: "The modernisation of the licensing system is a big step forward and will result in a better system all round, with benefits accruing at many levels. This Act gives the Garda Commissioner the additional powers he needs to address matters relating to firearms licensing

 

 

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There have been recent amendments to make licencing stricter in this part of Ireland as well. However I don't see it getting to the same level of constriction that's present in the uk. Back on topic, why are there no long barrelled versions of the Sig Mosquito? It's essentially a smaller P226 already made in .22. Would it not be cheaper to refine the Mosquito (i.e make it work) and sell a long barrelled version of it?

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There have been recent amendments to make licencing stricter in this part of Ireland as well. However I don't see it getting to the same level of constriction that's present in the uk. Back on topic, why are there no long barrelled versions of the Sig Mosquito? It's essentially a smaller P226 already made in .22. Would it not be cheaper to refine the Mosquito (i.e make it work) and sell a long barrelled version of it?

 

The iP226 isn't a converted P226, the iP226 is a .22LR P226. It comes from the Sig factory as a .22LR, Icon make it into a LBP.

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What a great way to utterly ruin a fine service pistol...lol. No offence to the gunsmith, I'm sure the engineering is spot on. I spat my tea out at the price. Then again, I guess if you really must have a semi-auto LBR, something based on a Sig would be as good as anything.

 

Interesting comments about pricing of firearms between the US and UK. It's not only about import taxes, beaurocracy and exchange rate fluctuations, there's a lot of profiteering going on as well. If you're in business, you charge what the market will stand at any given time. But yes, makes me feel queezy too.

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There have been recent amendments to make licencing stricter in this part of Ireland as well. However I don't see it getting to the same level of constriction that's present in the uk. Back on topic, why are there no long barrelled versions of the Sig Mosquito? It's essentially a smaller P226 already made in .22. Would it not be cheaper to refine the Mosquito (i.e make it work) and sell a long barrelled version of it?

Sig Mosquito is basically a scaled down P226. Only differences are size and calibre. And price lol. New Sig Mosquito brought in from dealer in Germany to NI is about 450-500 euro. P226 is about 1300 euro (all be it in 9mm).

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Not knocking the Sig Sauer P226 at all but for slightly less money (£860) you can have one of these, an Alfa .357 Magnum:

 

Alfa~PP~Prototype~008~2.jpg

 

OK so it's ML revolver conversion using nitro powder, shotgun primers and wadcutter or round nose rounds but no massively long barrel or steel rod welded to the butt to be burdened with.

 

p.s they do a 4 inch barrel version as well as the 6 inch shown above!

 

p.p.s I'm putting my order in very soon.

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Were are u ordering from? How would u describe it on a variation form? Model,caliber type etc

 

The open slot on my cert shows: .38/357 Revolver.

 

Obviously a Sec 1 firearm in this instance as not capable of firing standard cartridges.

 

Available from Alan Westlake: http://westlakeengineering.com/15105.html

 

I've fired a friends standard and match grade Armscor revolvers and don't find the grips comfortable at all and although I've yet to handle the Alfa, I'm confident that the grip will be very comfortable.

Edited by rogcal
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