How far can shot travel and does wind affect it much?

[lloydi73]

Ok,

 

Question for the vets amongst you.....

 

I was out shooting yesterday in a filed and had my hide against thick dense trees so wind wasn't hitting me, however, obviously higher up and further out it was blowing a gale!! I was shooting straight ahead across open fields with 12g 6's. About 200ft away and 20deg to my left were some barns!! The Farm Manager approached me after I'd been shooting at least 4 hours, and said the shot was landing on the barn roof and onto the cows in the farm yard presently being inoculated for TB.

 

Now, I knew there were people and cattle there, so I purposely ensured I aimed well away, and would never shoot over them, I was shooting straight out in front of me. I didn't argue with him, just apologised and moved away.

 

So, the question is, would shot travel that far 200 plus yards and could wind blow the shot that far off course that far out?!?

[Cranfield]

It depends on elevation and shot size, but (in my opinion) shot can travel 200 plus yards and be blown off course by strong winds near the end of its trajectory.

[lloydi73]

It depends on elevation and shot size, but (in my opinion) shot can travel 200 plus yards and be blown off course by strong winds near the end of its trajectory.

That would make sense then, as the barns were 200 yards away so it would have been at the very end and lost all propulsion so I suppose easily taken by the wind.....Lesson learnt for next time when strong winds are blowing!! Cheers Cranfield

[littlerob]

Most clay grounds have 300yards safety fall out as thats roughly far as size 6 can travel

[WGD]

Yes it could easily have travelled that far; I have shot at clays in a coastal location into a strong wind… shooting straight out in front the spent shot was being blown back and landing on tin roofs behind us.

[robbiep]

Going back 4-5 years ... 2 lads (who I know) decoying pigeons in a field behind our old house - not my field. They were shooting in the direction of the house, though it wasn't thought it would be a problem, even with a decent tailwind.

Shot was landing on the cars.

Distance from cars to hide : 490 metres, as measured on Google earth.

Edited March 3, 2015 by robbiep

[fenboy]

200ft is not nearly enough to guarantee shot not falling on anything you do not want it too.

Wind can move it quite some way too , how many times have you shot straight up but have not had the shot land anywhere near you ?

Lesson learned for you though so i am sure you will not repeat the mistake

[lloydi73]

Going back 4-5 years ... 2 lads (who I know) decoying pigeons in a field behind our old house - not my field. They were shooting in the direction of the house, though it wasn't thought it would be a problem, even with a decent tailwind.

Shot was landing on the cars.

Distance from cars to hide : 490 metres, as measured on Google earth.

Wow, that is eye opening, I would have never guessed it could travel that far, definitely a lesson learnt for the future..thanks all for your valuable input.....

200ft is not nearly enough to guarantee shot not falling on anything you do not want it too.

Wind can move it quite some way too , how many times have you shot straight up but have not had the shot land anywhere near you ?

Lesson learned for you though so i am sure you will not repeat the mistake

Thanks Fenboy, your damn right there, lesson well and truly learnt and won't be repeated!!

[blade]

What I tend to do if I find the pigeons and have a rough idea of where I'm going to site my hide.Is go in to Google earth find the field I'm shooting click on where my hide will be.Then click in measuring tool then measure 300 yds just to be safe and then look if there is anything that may be reached in the fallout.Footpaths roads or houses.Also don't forget its illegal for your shot to fall on land you don't have permission to shoot

[lloydi73]

What I tend to do if I find the pigeons and have a rough idea of where I'm going to site my hide.Is go in to Google earth find the field I'm shooting click on where my hide will be.Then click in measuring tool then measure 300 yds just to be safe and then look if there is anything that may be reached in the fallout.Footpaths roads or houses.Also don't forget its illegal for your shot to fall on land you don't have permission to shoot

Like the sound of that!!

[robbiep]

What I tend to do if I find the pigeons and have a rough idea of where I'm going to site my hide.Is go in to Google earth find the field I'm shooting click on where my hide will be.Then click in measuring tool then measure 300 yds just to be safe and then look if there is anything that may be reached in the fallout.Footpaths roads or houses.Also don't forget its illegal for your shot to fall on land you don't have permission to shoot

 

Wrong.

[blade]

im right its tresspass sorry

[psycho]

What Also don't forget its illegal for your shot to fall on land you don't have permission to shoot

That is correct for pellets and bullet rounds it is not correct for shot. its not classed as illegal for shot to leave a boundry line it is classed as not being sporting --- but an owner of the ajoining estate could persue a civil claim against you for tort of nuisance. So if the police were called for you shot landing on a roof of a house at the top of the field some 300 yards away you can't be arrested .yet if you fired an air gun and the pellet ricochet onto the shed you can and you would probably lose your air rifle must go back to the good old days of poacher and gentry

Edited March 3, 2015 by psycho

[blade]

ok ring basc and ask i did a couple of years back and told it was tresspass

[psycho]

ok ring basc and ask i did a couple of years back and told it was tresspass

again a civil act not a statutory law would probably be constructive trespass as you never went into the persons land yourself but for any civil there has to be damage and as it was a gram of shot the person would have to prove the damage or you could say no problem I will pay for the shot to be cleared from the land and it would never get to court as other than the lead on the land I can't see what damage the shot would do as all of the velocity would have been lost

[blade]

SAFETY

Great care should be exercised when siting a hide to make sure you are aware of all footpaths, bridleways, rights of way, roads and dwellings and that the angles of fire are safe before starting to shoot. Consider where your spent shot will fall, remember No.6 lead shot can travel some 350 yards with a strong wind behind it and if shot lands on neighbouring land where you do not have permission to be you are committing constructive trespass. Farm and other boundaries must be respected and shooting should not be undertaken without consideration of buildings, houses or neighbouring land. Always take into consideration the potential noise disturbance when shooting in the vicinity of livestock, horses and residents. Prior notification of your activity to nearby residents, horse owners etc may be appropriate

[clayman]

The answer is found in Dr Allsop's research for the shooting trade. His report should be available in full from the CPSA or other major shooting organisations that were jointly involved in commissioning this.

 

About 12 yrs ago, the CPSA board considered that if the safety margin of grounds set at 275m or 300yds was be contested in court on a liability claim, the historical evidence that this was sufficient ( purportedly some early Eley and CPSA personnel firing shot down the canal at Edmonton to see where it fell out) would not stand up and the CPSA could be joined in a liability claim of a ground had depended on their advice.

 

Dr Allsop as a ballistics expert was employed at a cost of some £10,000 to engage on a fully scientific test of shot sizes, with different loads, wads, bores and other variables. These tests were conducted at the MOD Shrivenham ranges

 

There is a multi page report published with full scientific methods described ( ie , to make it replicable ).

 

In a nutshell, ( to the best of my memory) the results were:

 

Shot sizes 7 to 9 all fell out between 190 - 205m in still conditions and max range was achieved at 26 degrees elevation. There were no appreciable differences in the fall out range between bore sizes, wad types, or loads - BUT no 6 did fall out appreciably further, AND windage could add up to another 50m further out or side drift.

 

The result of this was a recommendation to the CPSA Safety Committee of which I was chairman at the time, that the safety distance for CPSA grounds shooting all clay loads of no6 and up should be maintained, but an exemption to this and reduction to 250m would be allowed on application by a ground that agreed to shoot only no 8 and above. That exemption was first applied at Kibworth shooting ground where the skeet range closest to the Harborough Rd did not have 275m of safety, but with a shot size restriction could remain registered.

 

The further conclusion drawn from this, is if the shot size result is extrapolated, shots sizes 5 and lower will all fall out increasing distances, and that the max size of allowable shot on CPSA grounds must remain at no6 for the standard 275m danger zone.

 

JPY - CPSA Safety and Training Manager 2001-07

[wymberley]

Apart from the fact that now-a-days it's advantageous if you can have an expert pleading your case from the witness box, somebody could have saved their members some £10k. It would seem that Burrard and his empirical 1500 divided by the cube root of 'n' where 'n' is the number of pellets/ounce is not all that far out.

[clayman]

As I understand it, the costs of this report were divided amongst several interested parties, and I also know there was a financial return on the information, as it was copyright, but sold on again to further interested persons / organisations. As suggested, I think the reason for doing this report lay not in that the information was not already available from other sources, but that the engagement of Dr Allsop to produce a current report in the UK using presently available loads allowed for his attendance as an expert witness should the need arise at any enquiry or action, an obviated the possibility of an argument that existing information could be out of date. The original Eley tests were not conducted using scientific method, and were pre WWII when powder types etc were not the same as today!

 

For similar reasons, Derek Allsop as one of the UK's leading ballistic scientists was also engaged in 2008 by Kingsferry GC to investigate a comparison of steel and lead ricochet, and that report's outcome was that there is little difference. steel ricochet factor and lead ricochet being much the same suggesting that ricochet safety control levels should be the same regardless of the shot construction. Ref Huw Hopkins article Clayshooting Magazine Nov 2011

[welshwarrior]

The answer is found in Dr Allsop's research for the shooting trade. His report should be available in full from the CPSA or other major shooting organisations that were jointly involved in commissioning this.

 

About 12 yrs ago, the CPSA board considered that if the safety margin of grounds set at 275m or 300yds was be contested in court on a liability claim, the historical evidence that this was sufficient ( purportedly some early Eley and CPSA personnel firing shot down the canal at Edmonton to see where it fell out) would not stand up and the CPSA could be joined in a liability claim of a ground had depended on their advice.

 

Dr Allsop as a ballistics expert was employed at a cost of some £10,000 to engage on a fully scientific test of shot sizes, with different loads, wads, bores and other variables. These tests were conducted at the MOD Shrivenham ranges

 

There is a multi page report published with full scientific methods described ( ie , to make it replicable ).

 

In a nutshell, ( to the best of my memory) the results were:

 

Shot sizes 7 to 9 all fell out between 190 - 205m in still conditions and max range was achieved at 26 degrees elevation. There were no appreciable differences in the fall out range between bore sizes, wad types, or loads - BUT no 6 did fall out appreciably further, AND windage could add up to another 50m further out or side drift.

 

The result of this was a recommendation to the CPSA Safety Committee of which I was chairman at the time, that the safety distance for CPSA grounds shooting all clay loads of no6 and up should be maintained, but an exemption to this and reduction to 250m would be allowed on application by a ground that agreed to shoot only no 8 and above. That exemption was first applied at Kibworth shooting ground where the skeet range closest to the Harborough Rd did not have 275m of safety, but with a shot size restriction could remain registered.

 

The further conclusion drawn from this, is if the shot size result is extrapolated, shots sizes 5 and lower will all fall out increasing distances, and that the max size of allowable shot on CPSA grounds must remain at no6 for the standard 275m danger zone.

 

JPY - CPSA Safety and Training Manager 2001-07

Very interesting I was a committee member for the clay club at Shrivenham we tried to put in a Skeet range that only had a safety distance of 265m to the one side we where told I was not possible without a 275m safety distance even with smaller shot! Seem it had been proved wrong on our own range. I will pass that on to the new committee!