Phil9 Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 Hiya chaps,, one ov my permissions is a permenant grassland farm so no crops to shoot over,, so far it's been quiet good going with pigeon, hare, rats! Just wondering if any ov you guys shoot over a permenant grassland farm and if so what are ur bags like and what quarry do u come across reason being a friend ov mine shoots over a permenant grassland farm and says there is very little about Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) What crops are you protecting under conditions of the General License? Clover perhaps? Edited March 18, 2015 by rjimmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 Rabbits is the first thing that springs to mind and perhaps pigeon on clover. It depends if you have woods or any rough cover, decent hedge rows there ar emany factors involved. Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 I used to shoot over hay meadow and water meadow, rabbits and corvids in abundance, fox and deer too but we weren't allowed to shoot those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drut Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 I shoot one farm(380 acres) non-arable,not a lot left to shoot since I keep on top of things but fox/rabbit/pigeon/crow in small numbers + great views.There are some deer to watch(landowners enjoy watching them so shooting a no no) and the odd hare which I leave alone.Not a great farm to shoot quantity wise but the one I enjoy visiting the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 90% of my shooting is on pure grass land farms which I chose on purpose so I have shooting available all year round, my main quarry is rabbits and they are there in abundance even though Ive shot these farms weekly for nearly 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 Yep Rabbits rats foxes and of course grey squirrels, It is quality not quantity. A pleasure to be out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkfanz Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 What crops are you protecting under conditions of the General License? Clover perhaps? what do you protect when roost shooting,,,pine cones ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drut Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 What crops are you protecting under conditions of the General License? Clover perhaps? ? Lost me,general licences cover more than just crop protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 what do you protect when roost shooting,,,pine cones ? Exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Most of our is grassland/woodland. The crows attack the lambs and songbird nests. The rabbits undermine the land and take the grazing. The pigeons go in the calf sheds and take the feed and take diseases in by messing in the feeders. The foxes attack lambs and the chickens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 What crops are you protecting under conditions of the General License? Clover perhaps? Isn't crop protection carried out as such on pests, such as pigeon, wherever they occur, rather than site specific? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 exactly, its crop damage prevention not crop protection. I shoot a lot of pasture, rabbits and corvids mostly, we dont get many pigeon down here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Isn't crop protection carried out as such on pests, such as pigeon, wherever they occur, rather than site specific? Can of worms! EG. you have to be careful killing Canada Geese under the general license, it can only be done under certain circumstances. In the 60's, when there were experiments to control pigeon numbers with narcotics, it was said that individual crops could/should be protected by shooting, but that reducing pigeon numbers in general was a waste of time because the Winters(then) would kill large numbers off anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Can of worms! EG. you have to be careful killing Canada Geese under the general license, it can only be done under certain circumstances. In the 60's, when there were experiments to control pigeon numbers with narcotics, it was said that individual crops could/should be protected by shooting, but that reducing pigeon numbers in general was a waste of time because the Winters(then) would kill large numbers off anyway. Not sure I understand what point you're trying to make really, but were the drugged up pigeons on a specific site damaging crops at the time or was it just trialled on pigeons in general? Saying 'individual crops could/should be protected by shooting, but that reducing pigeon numbers in general was a waste of time' for whatever reason, isn't really relevant as far as I know, all that is relevant is what is specified in the GL, whatever the quarry. If shooting pigeons is site specific to a certain crop there are a lot of us in breach of the GL. If that were the case then perhaps we shouldn't be attracting them with decoys, nor shooting them as they fly past, but rather waiting until they land? We don't actually know they're going to eat the crop until they start doing so after all. Edited March 19, 2015 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Can of worms! EG. you have to be careful killing Canada Geese under the general license, it can only be done under certain circumstances. In the 60's, when there were experiments to control pigeon numbers with narcotics, it was said that individual crops could/should be protected by shooting, but that reducing pigeon numbers in general was a waste of time because the Winters(then) would kill large numbers off anyway. I think you will find that Canada Geese can be culled for just about any reason. Certainly in the 60's when I was growing cabbages commercially, the winters didn't seem to reduce numbers. Except perhaps the one of 1962/63, when many hundreds came into any green crops showing above the snow, we didn't need a hide, just stood in the fields shooting. They were so hungry they took no notice of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 If shooting pigeons is site specific to a certain crop there are a lot of us in breach of the GL. Exactly, but I want out of the EU, it's their idea. All this has been brought up before but BASC don't want to talk about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 I think you will find that Canada Geese can be culled for just about any reason. Certainly in the 60's when I was growing cabbages commercially, the winters didn't seem to reduce numbers. Except perhaps the one of 1962/63, when many hundreds came into any green crops showing above the snow, we didn't need a hide, just stood in the fields shooting. They were so hungry they took no notice of us. Lots of regulations and ideas stemmed from the 62/63 Winter, but not 'Global Warming'. I know gamekeepers who are very careful/wary about culling Canada Geese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Despite there being no rape growing on our permission or nearby the pigeons crops are often stuffed with it. There is no way you can make crop protection site specific the distaces they travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Exactly, but I want out of the EU, it's their idea. All this has been brought up before but BASC don't want to talk about it. You keep saying 'exactly' but I'm genuinely at a loss as to what exactly it is you're trying to say. What is the EU's idea, and what is it that BASC don't want to talk about? Lots of regulations and ideas stemmed from the 62/63 Winter, but not 'Global Warming'. I know gamekeepers who are very careful/wary about culling Canada Geese. You've gone from the 1960's, to Canada Geese and global warming in 5 posts on a thread about permanent grassland shooting. I'm lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 If shooting pigeons is site specific to a certain crop there are a lot of us in breach of the GL. That's the way I see it. There, I didn't use that word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 That's the way I see it. There, I didn't use that word. So is the GL site specific? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 As far as I can see, to be operating lawfully, you must be able to show that you are operating to: (1) Prevent serious damage to livestock, foodstuffs for livestock, crops, vegetables, fruit, growing timber, fisheries or inland waters, or (2) Prevent the spread of disease. MAFF concluded that reducing the general population of pigeons was a waste of time and that the only way was to protect individual crops as and when they were being attacked. Under the General License you have to show that you are satisfied that non-lethal means have not been affective or are impractical to provide protection for the crop. I believe there have been cases where anti-shooters have approached roost shooters and asked them to demonstrate that they are acting within General License conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 As far as I can see, to be operating lawfully, you must be able to show that you are operating to: (1) Prevent serious damage to livestock, foodstuffs for livestock, crops, vegetables, fruit, growing timber, fisheries or inland waters, or (2) Prevent the spread of disease. MAFF concluded that reducing the general population of pigeons was a waste of time and that the only way was to protect individual crops as and when they were being attacked. Under the General License you have to show that you are satisfied that non-lethal means have not been affective or are impractical to provide protection for the crop. I believe there have been cases where anti-shooters have approached roost shooters and asked them to demonstrate that they are acting within General License conditions. I have no recollection of MAFF ever suggesting that reducing the population was a waste of time. If you read the GL you will see that the wording actually states " the user must be satisfied that legal (including non-lethal) methods of resolving the problem are ineffective or impracticable". Therefore, if I decide, quite correctly for my situation, that roost shooting is the only practical way to reduce numbers and thus reduce my crop damage I am within the law. And finally, your suggestion that " you have to be careful killing Canada Geese under the general license, it can only be done under certain circumstances." and " I know gamekeepers who are very careful/wary about culling Canada Geese" I find strange. The GL is even more relaxed as far as Canada Geese are concerned, as an example, rounding them up whilst they are flightless so that numbers may be held captive prior to culling and destroying their nests and eggs. I don't really understand why you are trying to complicate what is a straightforward matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadWasp Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Most of our is grassland/woodland. The crows attack the lambs and songbird nests. The rabbits undermine the land and take the grazing. The pigeons go in the calf sheds and take the feed and take diseases in by messing in the feeders. The foxes attack lambs and the chickens. Corvids will get into any soya clamps and they love calf pens. They just love a bit of slurry injection or anything that disturbs the ground (hay making etc.) If you have sheep you'll have similar corvid problems. With the lambs coming imminently you'll get corvids on the feeders waiting to go for the eyes. Get them and you'll be a popular person! You'll have fox too. Sounds like you have lots of opportunity for air rifle for birds around barns or rimfire heaven zotting them out in the grass. Fill your boots! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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