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.25-06 barrel length


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Hi

 

I'd just like to ask some opinions on barrel length for .25-06 calibre. My understanding was that to get the best out of it the calibre needs a longer barrel - say at least 24 inch and it also prefers a slower burning powder. I have been told in a couple of gunshops that double base powders allow shorter barrels to be used effectively. This would open up a whole new potential range of factory rifles for me- most with 20-22 inch barrels - as before I was basically down to a Weatherby or a Steyr.

 

I have 2 thoughts - firstly am I being 'sold' to as these shop's advice bucks the trend. Secondly if I buy long I can always shorten it, but not the other way around.

 

Any thoughts from reloaders, especially .25-06 owners, would be much appreciated. I will be using it mainly for upland deer and AOLQ. The following bullet weights seem to be available down South. 70 (match), 85, 87, 90, 100, 115, 117, 120.

 

cheers guys

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Double base powder, to me, usually means faster powder and higher pressures, so yes, you could get complete combustion in a shorter barrel using a faster powder, but whether you'll be able to do so with a round as flat / fast as you might with slower powder and longer barrel is questionable. That said, there are any number of possible powders available, so there's probably one that will fit the bill if you have to get a 20"/22" barrel.

 

To me, you've implied the answer in your question though - the .25-06 does need slower powders and longer barrels for best performance and I don't think a 26" barrel would be too much, frankly, though it obviously becomes increasingly heavy and awkward to lug around the hill as the length increases.

 

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting your meaning of "upland", but to me that says "the Highlands" or at least "200-300 yard shots taken from above in hilly country". If that's the case, then no matter how fast / flat the .25-06 is (and it is - or can be), I don't think it would be my first choice.

 

Small bullets lose energy quickly and whilst most bullets from a .25-06 will kill deer at that range and further, remember that for the fastest / flattest trajectory in any calibre (i.e. most usable 300 yard gun), you're looking at using the lightest bullets. An 80-100gr bullet at 300 yards on a large deer will certainly drop the animal if the shooter does his / her part, but it's probably a bit marginal in the hands of the average shooter, when real life conditions (wind, unstable hold, etc.) are taken into account. If you move up to a 120gr bullet then you'll get more retained energy on impact, but at the cost of trajectory, which makes life harder again.

 

I suppose what I'm saying is that any .25 calibre rifle is fine for deer, within it's limits, but I personally wouldn't use one outside of a woodland stalking situation where the shots are around 150-170 yards maximum. But that's just me. If it were my choice though, I'd be looking at a 7mm, minimum, and if you really are taking 300 yard shots as I've understood, then you're probably going to want to look at things like 7mm Remington Magnum or .300 WinMag with a 140-150gr bullet, minimum.

 

That is all just my opinion though - I don't expect it to change anything for you. :)

 

Edit - oh, and the 7mm / .300 certainly need a 24"+ barrel and slow powders...

Edited by neutron619
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Hi Neutron - thanks for your confirmation of the slow powder and long barrel.

 

By 'upland' I meant hilly, open and windy. Yes it will be used in Scotland but I was thinking more Dartmoor and Exmoor. Mind you some of the deer management on The Downs is done at range (though not quite at the ranges an acquaintance's middle eastern clients consider 'sporting').

 

I did um and err about 7mm or 6.5 but .25-06 seems a popular hill calibre in the land of the sabre toothed midge. I really do value your opinion - the only thing is the variation is 'in' so no going back just yet!

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My Sako 85 has a 20" barrel and I've had no issues what so ever using 117grn ammo, either on lowland roe or Scottish reds out to about 280yds (longest shot) on reds.

Jase.

 

*Hat tip.*

 

You're clearly a better shooter than me. At 280 yards, I'd want a decent sized pill going very flat / fast indeed. Now where's that variation for a .300 gone... :)

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What I don't understand is how many people get hung up on calibre, bullet weight use a well constructed bullet learn to use said rifle and put the bullet in the right place, job done.

 

I think half of it is fascination about firearms in general - e.g. "calibre monkeys" - and half of it is down to confidence. It's hard to argue that a 150gr pill at 2800fps is going to hit less hard than a 117gr pill because it wouldn't be true, so in the end, for the sake of the deer, I and other people try to exceed "sufficiency" (i.e. just enough to kill it cleanly) by as big a margin as possible, without reaching the point of stupidity on the recoil / damage front.

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I'm not saying that by using a cal smaller than say a .30 you'll be on the limits of clean kills, a 6-7mm bullet launched at a sufficient speed has plenty of punch to kill any uk deer species if put in the vitals and a .30 cal bullet will wound as easy as any other if poorly placed, bullet placement beats xxx amount of extra ft lb of energy at distance as long as both projectiles carry sufficient energy at your shootable range.

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What I don't understand is how many people get hung up on calibre, bullet weight use a well constructed bullet learn to use said rifle and put the bullet in the right place, job done.

 

I do believe, as in the often seen case of wanting a .243 for fox over .223, many have the desire to possess than really need. Its important for the bullet to displace as much energy within a carcass rather than taking it on through the animal in regard to kill rate but there are so many variables, with woodland stalking its an advantage to have a bullet that exits leaving a decent blood trail. I personally love the 308 and know what the bullets I reload do out to 300yds so its like a glove to me, it has a 20inch barrel and may even have it chopped down to 18inch yet, unless your shooting out to ranges in excess of 600yds I really wouldn't worry about barrel length.

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Double base powder, to me, usually means faster powder and higher

 

I suppose what I'm saying is that any .25 calibre rifle is fine for deer, within it's limits, but I personally wouldn't use one outside of a woodland stalking situation where the shots are around 150-170 yards maximum.

 

Really !!!!! Well it's obvious you have never used a .25-06 or know nothing about the calibre.

 

But that's just me. If it were my choice though, I'd be looking at a 7mm, minimum, and if you really are taking 300 yard shots as I've understood, then you're probably going to want to look at things like 7mm Remington Magnum or .300 WinMag with a 140-150gr bullet, minimum.

 

That is all just my opinion though - I don't expect it to change anything for you. :)

 

Edit - oh, and the 7mm / .300 certainly need a 24"+ barrel and slow powders...

I've used a .25-06 and a .300 Win-Mag for 40+ years.

Using 117 gr Hornady Round Nose or 120gr Nosler Partition from the. 25-06 I've shot cleanly a very high numbers of some of if not the Biggest Wild Red deer to walk the British Isles.

In the .300 Win-Mag I used 120gr - 185gr and 200gr Lapua Mega did these kill Deer further or quicker than the .25-06 100 % NO and I'm used to shooting 200 -250 Deer a season Mainly Fallow and Red's but Roe - CWD and Muntjac.

My .25-06 rifles had 22 9/16" and 23.5" barrel the .300 Win-Mag 23.5 IMR or Hodgson 4831 powder is what I use to reload.

I'm now using a 6.5x55 with a 26 " barrel does this kill any better or worse than the .25-06 or .300 Win-Mag !!!!! 100 % NO.

Leadwasp I had my .25-06 printing 1/2" high at 100 yrd. Do your bit and 300yrd Deer are capable.

I must point out I am NOT a " Deer Sniper " but have the Rifle and ability to take a long shot IF needed.

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I've used a .25-06 and a .300 Win-Mag for 40+ years.

Using 117 gr Hornady Round Nose or 120gr Nosler Partition from the. 25-06 I've shot cleanly a very high numbers of some of if not the Biggest Wild Red deer to walk the British Isles.

In the .300 Win-Mag I used 120gr - 185gr and 200gr Lapua Mega did these kill Deer further or quicker than the .25-06 100 % NO and I'm used to shooting 200 -250 Deer a season Mainly Fallow and Red's but Roe - CWD and Muntjac.

My .25-06 rifles had 22 9/16" and 23.5" barrel the .300 Win-Mag 23.5 IMR or Hodgson 4831 powder is what I use to reload.

I'm now using a 6.5x55 with a 26 " barrel does this kill any better or worse than the .25-06 or .300 Win-Mag !!!!! 100 % NO.

Leadwasp I had my .25-06 printing 1/2" high at 100 yrd. Do your bit and 300yrd Deer are capable.

I must point out I am NOT a " Deer Sniper " but have the Rifle and ability to take a long shot IF needed.

 

Please allow me to quote the part of my earlier post most relevant to your responses:

 

That is all just my opinion though - I don't expect it to change anything for you. :)

 

I think that covers it. Good day.

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Thanks for your input 6.5. I don't want people to misinterpret why I'm asking about barrel length. It obviously does have a bearing otherwise we'd all be shooting really short things. Any tool needs to be made a certain way to be right. I certainly didn't want to get into a calibre debate. I just wanted to know if in this case the common perception that 24-26" was about right for this calibre or not. I'd recently been advised something that bucked this perception and I wanted some independent advice (no £££ involved!).

 

If you've got any more tips about the calibre I'd welcome them

 

cheers

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Leadwasp I personally never found any difference from my Sauer 202 with a 23.5" barrel to my Tikka t3 with a just under 20" barrel you can get them with a 22+ barrel but they are not screw cut.

IMHO be careful of light projectiles at fast max speed as these will/can cause excessive mate damage/bruising especially on the small Deer.

If I had to pick only one projectile it would be the 120gr Nosler Partition even the 115gr Partition. 120gr Speer Grand Slam I found good But did find a few would Needle Through the Hornady Round Nose 117 gr again a excellent projectile and will pass through even the Biggest of clean ribbed Red and Fallow.

Be patience when you first start working a load up as some .25-06 can be a pain to get right.

also if you do any foxing 75 gr V- Max with open your eyes so much I got rid of my .220 Swift and used the .25-06.

Good luck and enjoy a fantastic calibre

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Yes they do bark a bit don't they. Mod was included in variation. So many to choose from.....any suggestions. Personally I like reflex styles.

 

Thanks for the projectile suggestions. I'll have to check Hannam's list but the only Nosler I've found so far in the South is at Country Sports Newton Abbot, they do a 115gr. They seem to have an excellent selection of bullets for reloading 70's to 117's.

Main suppliers I've found are:-

Dauntsey in Wilts (nice blokes) factory Hornady 117gr PPU 100.

Bradshaws Lincs (my Mrs's home county) factory Feds, Rems, Sako, Hornaday 100's,115's and 117's

Bushwear factory

Emmett and Stone factory

Donaldsons factory Feds and Wins

Riflecraft factory Hornady's

 

Can anyone suggest a nice new controlled feed rifle that is actually obtainable with a barrel of 24 or over! I'd love a Krico but I think they're long gone aren't they?

Edited by LeadWasp
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A-Tec Maxam is the Moderator I use others will tell you this and that moderator is less noise reduction But unless less they have high tech sound equipment using the ears is not the way to tell.

Before I started reloading I used Remington 120gr Cor-Lok to good effect on Muntjac CWD Roe Sika Stag Fallow Bucks and Big Red Stag's.

Stey Manlincher pro hunter mk11 do a 24" barrel twisted finished screw cut barrel single set trigger detachable magazine.

My mates is a Tack Driver

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Can you let me know where you got your 75''s, Nosler partitions and Remmy Cor-Lok's from please. I've not found any in my searches.

 

What powder's did you use? I was thinking of 4831 or 4350 or perhaps Reloader 17. Am I also right in thinking that the calibre seems to favour a big jump into the lands. I've read 90 thou somewhere (from memory) can that be right?

 

Thanks for all this information - and to a guy called 222 who PM's me - much, much appreciated guys!

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Only used a 25-06 a few times 24" barrel it worked very well but have tried longer or shorter. I saw this rifle killing foxes at 300 yards comfortably and a few weeks later with a heavier bullet drop red hinds.

 

Moderator wise he ran 2 to decide on his preference hardy gen 4 and an ainzonic cyclone. Personally I think the new Ainzonic would be better but has to be closely matched to the rifle and gas volumes.

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mine shoots the 117 grain sako game heads superbly in factory ammo. i do reload but have a number of these to use as i got them as part of a deal with the rifle. also 100 grain nostler bt hunting bullets. which i will reload with elcho 17 powder.

 

i have a ase s5 moderator on mine. does a superb job. as for the deer shooting i cant comment on that with the rifle. as ive had a break from shooting and only just getting back into it.

friend of mine has same rifle. shot munty roe and fallow. no problem with it.

 

also know a lad who shoots same calibre down in Devon. uses 75 vmax for foxes and 117 grain for all deer. and he has shot some very big reds with it. no problem at all.

 

imo it is a superb all round calibre

Edited by jamie g
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Thanks Jamie - the variation landed on the mat today, which coupled with some new land makes me a happy chap!

I've loved it as a calibre when I've shot it....just never assumed until now that I'd end up going down that route.

I'm also grateful for the mod recommendation - I had been thinking Hardy(?).

 

I've found a couple more places stocking the calibre (PPU and Hornady) Woodlands in Gt Shefford and Raker in Petworth. I must try Ivor at Old Mill Guns to see if he has some too.

 

Cleaning kit seems to be a bit tricky...took me ages to find a brass brush.

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