how close is to close breeding

[Pothunter]

The very best to the very best and hope for the best should be the only way.

Bang on.

[scotslad]

But how do u tell the very best?

 

Since FT has become the be all and end all i'd say the quality and build of working dogs has decrased dramatically.

I know spaniel trainers who are regularly buying 10-20 pups everry year all FTCH or FTW on both sides and yet struggle to find their next trial dog. Not all these 'rejects' are always suitable for working handlers.

 

In the older days dogs would often be breed locally between a few shoots and it was not always the best trained dogs that were bred from (ie 'X's' wild dog that had a cracking nose, but the same breeding as 'Y's' which was far better trained but poorer nose) so u would breed of 'X's' wild 1 as u would make allowances for the owners lack of training so u are hopefully breeding of the best dog of the litter, which is not always the case now. Was far more a stocksmans eye in accessing both dogs rather than just going to the fancy/fashionable name or intails

 

I mind sitting on a hill picking up on high ground partridge trying to watch birds down, and the game cart boys spaniels were running wild as normal, 2 of the worst trained dogs i've ever seen (out at 5 months age and trained on the job ), and yet when u actually watched 1 of them it worked really naturally well, hunted a nice pattern and never missed a bird. If u ignored the lack of any training wotsoever it was actually a very gifted dog but very very hard to see past the lack of training

Unlike his other dog which played musical birds with them lifting and spitting them all over the spot. Nightmare

 

For the OP i'd really look close at ur dog and try to find as many strengths and faults as u can, be really picky, and then try to find a working bred cocker that is the oppisate, it's strengths are ur bitches biggest weakness's. But if ur dog squeks or any noise at all dinae breed from it, seen far too many noisey cockers breeding and then u end up with more noisey working dogs.

There is merit in line breeding but it really is more for really knowledgable people that will have a good idea wot both sides are likely to throw, abd knowing there histories very well and any possibly healths problems from any pups

[cocker boy]

Its all subjective. One mans great worker is another mans cull. I have yet to hear any man on any shoot say their dog is rubbish yet I have seen hundreds. I once saw a cocker bitch on a shoot that's front legs were so bent in it looked like a show bred dachshund and was finished well before lunchtime. When I mentioned the appalling queen Anne legs the owner said "what's queen Anne mean?". The dog was described as the best on the shoot simply because it didn't eat any shot birds !!!!!!!. The bitch had had a couple of litters of pups and pups sold because very few people are bothered about what they are buying. It seams so long as the dog comes back at the end of a drive, and doesn't bite the kids at home, it is worth breeding from. Terrible situation in my eyes. But each to their own.

[cocker boy]

But how do u tell the very best?

 

Since FT has become the be all and end all i'd say the quality and build of working dogs has decrased dramatically.

I know spaniel trainers who are regularly buying 10-20 pups everry year all FTCH or FTW on both sides and yet struggle to find their next trial dog.

How many "trainers" do you know that buy in 20 pups every year?.

[scotslad]

I will grant u 20 is excessive (but i'm sure some of the big kennels could be doing that) but I could name half a dozen or more pro trainers that all go throu 10-15 every year, and speaking to them that seems to be the norm.

[lee-kinsman]

Got to answer a few points,,,, reason for breeding,, to me I've got a good dog from good lines who is only let down by my poor training so yes prob classed as one of those **** dogs on the shoot,but she misses nowt puts all the springers to shame when they run on she sniffs dives in and up comes the bird,,,, now more important to me is that she has a class temperament as she is also my kids pet and is so easy going with them and when has had enough just jumps up to chair at window or clears of to a bedroom out of the way....this is what is important to me, now I can quite easily afford to go and buy any pup I can find but will I get this easy going temperament chance I don't need to take,, now financial gain nope not the case either I need 1 pup for me and already have 2 ppl who have asked for a pup if there is any more unknown to them this will be a gift from me no money will be taken, I'm not breeding for money just trying to get myself another decent dog to shoot over........

Might be totally out of order here but if you planning on breeding from a bitch that isn't as good as she can be because you've let her down on training what are you breeding from her for. Buy a different dog that you can get the best out of because the truth is as long as your not satisfied because you lack the ability to bring the best out of your dog you still don't really know if she's worth breeding from. I have also met many people who have the best dog in the world that runs rings round the alternative gundog breeds on shoots but isn't as good as it should be because the handler hasn't got the best out of her. Just my opinion.