Aluminum Punt

[kent]

So a question for the few of you who go punt gunning. Would an Aluminium punt be any good? Thinking it would be light yet strong and long lasting. As I am a Fabricator I could also make it myself quite quick and easy taken off traditional design but with modern materials.

Am I barking up the wrong tree here? I have fished from many Ali boats and their downsides seem to be upsides for a punt but then again its something I have only read of and never done.

The Gun might be more of an issue but my neighbour has a lovely big lathe

[Doriboy]

It would be too noisy

[Old farrier]

Hi

Kent

Most punts are area specific and have been constructed to suit the needs of individuals

From materiels available to them

Some are good some are not so

Best to crack on and give it a go you may revolutionise punt gunning and bring it to another level

Worst you can end up with is a expensive canoe

Best of luck with the project should you take it up

All the best

Of

[mudpatten]

Some years ago I had a close look at three aluminium punts built just after the war by John Field using aluminium from the aircraft industry. Field wrote the chapter on puntgunning in the 1961 edition of the New Wildfowler and a long standing column in The Field under the name of Taproot.

 

By his own admission the noise they made when one moved around inside them could be clearly heard by the birds because of the metallic "echo" from inside the boat. I confirmed this for myself by having a bit of a play with them.

 

Having said that, he had plainly made no effort to "sound insulate" the inside of the punt which I`m sure could be done simply using any one of a number of methods.

 

What was apparent was that they were immensely strong for relatively light weight.

 

It would be interesting to see how an ally punt turned out.

 

A few quick tips on punt design. Relatively long and relatively narrow will handle better than short and beamy. Also remember that a punts handling characteristics depend to some extent upon it`s weight and how it sits IN the water. Resist the temptation to build it too light in weight. It should weigh pretty much the same as it`s wooden counterpart.

 

That being said, the advantage in using aluminium would be in it`s strength and ease of construction rather than any potential saving in weight.

 

Would you weld or rivet it? Fields were riveted and leaked like sieves.

[loriusgarrulus]

Will you build it with an inner wooden frame and an aluminium outer skin.

If you want to keep the frame light western red cedar is very light and durable.

There are a lot of images on google for aluminium punts.

Edited May 14, 2015 by loriusgarrulus

[islandgun]

I like aluminium boats light and durable, ive also seen plenty of gun punts, quite heavy, weight would be an advantage in a wind to grip the water but for light winds (surely when you would use it) i reckon aluminium would be fine and certainly worth a bash, go for it and post some pics

ATB

[Old farrier]

Will you build it with an inner wooden frame and an aluminium outer skin.

If you want to keep the frame light western red cedar is very light and durable.

There are a lot of images on google for aluminium punts.

I googled them and there not gunning punts

It's obviouse to me you are a skilled punt builder and I'm sure moving from the traditional strength to weight ratio of oak and elm for ribs and frames

To light red ceader would be of benifit to mr Kent who stated in his post that he was a metal fabricator

 

Oh and rather computer inept

All the best

Of

[grrclark]

No experience in punts, but plenty enough in boats.

 

A benefit of an aluminium boat would be the ease of integrating a full length narrow and deeper keel to give great directional stability and floor stiffness or you could effectively do the same thing on the chines so you have two fins, presuming that it will be a relatively flat bottomed boat. That would also give you a lot of sideways grip on the water and mean you could float it a little higher, it also reduces rowing effort as less effort and technique is required to stay true, but of course needs more deliberate effort to turn it.

 

To take the ring out the hull then spray closed cell foam into the voids, also makes it unsinkable should you have a hull rupture, just need to make sure it is a marine suitable foam.

 

Edit to add: I hope that you do make it and will look forward to hearing about the progress you make.

Edited May 14, 2015 by grrclark

[Karl_h]

Only thing to think about is the type of fastenings you use especially as it will be used in Salt water. you may find without an anode it will turn into white powder quite quick with galvanic corrosion

Edited May 14, 2015 by Karl_h

[kent]

Thanks,

The Idea started as a duck boat to shoot a shoulder gun over decoys in inaccessible spots and to sit out bigger tides shooting and it progressed, it might just be I have been doing too much reading. The hull I was thinking 5052 grade ali sheet about 3mm-4mm thick fully welded along the seams after its rolled to shape, I thought if I could manage without ribs is might be more comfortable but stiffening ribs could be added.

Mudpatern you make a good point about noise I recently worked on a barge rebuild and these have foam sprayed on the walls and

roof to prevent interdental condensation. I suppose I should consider this for buoyancy also.

Its not an aspect of our sport I fully understand and is embryonic at this early stage, if something comes in requiring similar I might just over order a bit though LOL

 

Which should come first though the boat or the gun? Does it matter? The boat must sit right with the gun fitted and I get that, I can easy make a mock up of the gun and alter it to suit once the boat is done but what is the convention?

[mudpatten]

To some extent you`d tailor a smaller punt to the gun since altering the gun is far more difficult, unless you`re intending to build a biggish punt in which case it matters less since the larger boat will accommodate pretty much any sized gun of legal bore size.

 

I have to say that no punt I`ve ever been in has any additional bouyancy fitted. It takes up too much room. As my old gunning mentor once said about it "My grandfather never used it and,if you`ve already thrown the big gun overboard to lighten ship and you`re still sinking, in a January sea,you`re going to die anyway, so don`t get into that situation."

 

As a philosophy it seems to have worked for him. He`s now 96 and has just had a knee joint replaced.

[Tim Kelly]

I don't know if it would be relevant, but ali boats seem to float "on" the water where wood and glass boats float more "in" the water, as a result ali hulls are more prone to being blown around by the wind. Don't know whether that would be important for a punt gun, but control of any boat is usually better than a lack of control.

[E.w.]

I don't know if it would be relevant, but ali boats seem to float "on" the water where wood and glass boats float more "in" the water, as a result ali hulls are more prone to being blown around by the wind. Don't know whether that would be important for a punt gun, but control of any boat is usually better than a lack of control.

I know nothing of boats but had a saro terrapin speed boat Ali construction and know exactly what you mean.

[kent]

I don't know if it would be relevant, but ali boats seem to float "on" the water where wood and glass boats float more "in" the water, as a result ali hulls are more prone to being blown around by the wind. Don't know whether that would be important for a punt gun, but control of any boat is usually better than a lack of control.

 

Yes as you are aware I have spent a few hours in them fishing, I thought these facts might be a good thing? Certainly had enough of launching and recovering big heavy boats and trailering them round the country. Anyhow if it was windy I should be shooting from the shore conventionally.

Just I see great big rafts of duck at some venues that never get shot at or even seen by shore gunners and always fancied a go , besides its a tradition and right that will soon be lost altogether if some younger guys don't take it up (most puntgunners are ex-puntgunners due to age)

[grrclark]

Getting blown sideways across the water is the bane of any flat hulled boat, likewise keeping straight line accuracy under any sort of power.

 

That is why a long keel, skeg or rib is a good thing as it gives you a lot of lateral grip and keeps things in a straight line, so good directional stability. If you want super manoeuvrability then you would have a short skeg around the moment of turning.

 

Building from aluminium means you could weld in a relatively deep and narrow keel onto the punt. Having two of them is good if you run up on hard ground too as it gives protection to the skin of the hull. If you drag it through mud to/from the water then that is a potential problem as it will try and keep everything running straight which might not be what you want.

[mudpatten]

Gunning punts are traditionally flat bottomed apart from the appropriate spring and kammel.

 

A keel of any sort would spoil it`s ability to operate in very shallow water where a great many punt gun shots are taken.

 

Going back to my original point, in order to handle correctly an ally,or fibreglass, punt should be built to the same weight to size ratio as a wooden one. The lighter you build it, the more it sits on rather than in the water and the less control one has over it.

[islandgun]

A flat bottom gives a 2 hard chines that grip the water you could build in a couple of small (corners) 50mm say, into the chine which would enhance the grip and give better steerage a flat bottom on a normal boat is undesirable as it will slam in a sea .Kent you could build around or incorporate bulk heads into the build which would give reserve buoyancy and effectively make the punt unsinkable always desirable, I think an aluminium punt would be ideal as because its light which would allow you to car top and negate the need for a trailer and be easy to push about in the shallows, fill your boots (or not)

[grrclark]

IG, using the chines is a sound idea to me too, that's what I was getting at in one of my posts above about building in a rib along the chines, built in lee boards I guess. It does't need to be so deep as to affect the working draught, just enough to give a good bit of grip and easy steerage.

 

Again with you in building in bulkheads and filling with marine grade expanding foam makes it completely unsinkable and would deaden the metallic ring from the hull skin.

 

I hope that you do make it Kent, it will be great to see how it works out.

[kent]

Gunning punts are traditionally flat bottomed apart from the appropriate spring and kammel.

 

A keel of any sort would spoil it`s ability to operate in very shallow water where a great many punt gun shots are taken.

 

Going back to my original point, in order to handle correctly an ally,or fibreglass, punt should be built to the same weight to size ratio as a wooden one. The lighter you build it, the more it sits on rather than in the water and the less control one has over it.

 

I could ballast to achieve this after getting the hull shape in line with the traditional could I not, I need to do some reading up on hull design for punts

[kent]

IG, using the chines is a sound idea to me too, that's what I was getting at in one of my posts above about building in a rib along the chines, built in lee boards I guess. It does't need to be so deep as to affect the working draught, just enough to give a good bit of grip and easy steerage.

 

Again with you in building in bulkheads and filling with marine grade expanding foam makes it completely unsinkable and would deaden the metallic ring from the hull skin.

 

I hope that you do make it Kent, it will be great to see how it works out.

 

I will build an ali boat because it will only stand me at the material cost and the electric. If it is the punt or the Dory style duck boat or even a layout is the other matter yet to be 100% decided.

[GADWALL41]

Hello Kent ,

I have been using a Ali Boat for a few seasons now , Fishing and Ducking .

13ft Linder in pics att .

 

As a Fishing boat it is great , as a boat to shoot duck from , or to get to those hard to reach places to shoot, not so great .

 

After researching as much as I could , I went for a Vee Hull , as I would be crossing big water as an extra safety measure I went with the V.

This boat as you can see has chines on the hull, Keeps it a dry boat and steps up on the plane quickly , not something you need in a duck punt .

It has built in floatation under the seats etc .

I cannot get into the shallow areas I want to shoot , the v hull and chines stick me to the mud like glue .

 

A Flat bottom Boat is a must .

 

Weight , great for launch and retrieve , but you will feel every ripple and every puff of wind , Ballast would be a must to keep a punt gun on Track .

Also Freeboard , you would need as low a profile as possible to keep you tracking straight.

 

On the plus side , Ali is a lay it down forget about it material for a boat .

 

I am sure I saw a link to plans for an Ali layout cross sneak boat somewhere and I might have saved the link , if I have it I will send it in later.

 

Myself I wanted a similar boat to this sneak boat see pic., USA style , cost of shipping with the Euro collapsing ( and going south with Greece HEADING WEST) makes it a no go at this time . So I have opted for a light cheap alternative , see pic , due in any day next week .

 

Given the above I think an ALI sneak type Punt Gunning Boat is a real proposition.

Good luck with the build and a Build report on here would be fantastic,

 

Quack Quack , ps might have to att pics into a 2nd post .

Edited May 17, 2015 by GADWALL41

[GADWALL41]

2nd lot of pics .

 

USA boat I would like and what I will use this year in grey , Camoed over of course , 12ft KA BOAT .

Benefits would be roof rack no trailer needed ,

 

 

[GADWALL41]

2 links for inspiration,

 

the 2nd boat is a nice one , but would prefer the bow in the water , this one is built for speed.

 

http://www.duckhuntingchat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=106995

 

 

http://www.duckhuntingchat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=143620

[kent]

Gadwall,

I think you might have confused the issue now, they look so good those American sneek boats

[GADWALL41]

I know what you mean ,

 

some lovely American boats out there , the Danish shooters after Eider etc , have some nice small boats to .

 

A basic sneak boat start around 1300 usd , up to 5000 ish for some of those pictured , shipping , well that's going to be north of 500 and Tax and import duties after that . But you would have a Boat for life , note how Beamy they are !.