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22lr - reducing ricochets advice please


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Hi Guys,

 

Hoping for some help. I have had both a 17hmr and 22lr for a few years now (as well as a .223) and I exclusively use my hmr for my bunny bashing, with exception of the air rifles and .223 where the situation requires.

 

I use my .22lr on my local range a lot, probably 1500 rounds a year, but have only used it a couple of times in the field due to fear of ricochets. My land (arable only) is not the best for the .22 due to being quite stony, especially when ploughed, although 90% on my fields do have about 15ft of grass around the edges where I see a good percentage of bunnies.

 

Now, I love my .22lr, deadly accurate and really quiet, and I really want to use it out in the field more, but I am a bit wary of it! I have used it twice and had the dreaded ricochet on one of those occasions which put me off to be honest. My fields are pretty open with little cover and I mostly shoot between 40 - 120 yards when I am daytime shooting. At night, I use the nightvision so a sub 12 ftlb air rifle is excellent.

 

So, firstly, should I just give up on the idea of using the .22lr more? Or should I persist? The other option is to swap it for FAC Air to get some added distance on my air rifles, without having to use the hmr.

 

If I do persist with the .22lr, can anyone offer any advice on reducing ricochets? Most of the videos I see online of rabbit shooting with a .22lr are taking shots I would never dream of taking with any of my calibres. Should I stay away from taking shots into ploughed fields and keep it to the edges of the field where it is grass etc?

 

Any help is gratefully received.

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I'm in the same situation, my land lends itself to LARGE amount of ricochet, so similar to you I use the hmr for almost all of my rabbit shooting, and only use the .22 on other land I have that is less likely to cause this problem.

 

I'm not a fan of the FAC air, but, if its the right tool for the job, its the right tool!

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I'm in the same situation, my land lends itself to LARGE amount of ricochet, so similar to you I use the hmr for almost all of my rabbit shooting, and only use the .22 on other land I have that is less likely to cause this problem.

 

I'm not a fan of the FAC air, but, if its the right tool for the job, its the right tool!

I feel your pain Kyska! It is so frustrating as it such a good tool, but I'm frightened of using it! Have you got any tips on where you will and won't use yours mate? I always use full height sticks with my other rifles as I like the extra safety of increasing the angles, apart from a couple of spots on my land where there is a small valley with a great backstop which is perfect for my .223 on a bipod.

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Land dryness is a factor. The .22 or needs far more thought and care in use so I use the HMR when the .22 lr is not ideal. Any round can ricochet though...... Hence backstops.

I did find out about dry land, wet grass, water etc in my research before I got my FAC and I always follow the rules when shooting (with all of my calibres), and I would even say that I loose out on more shots than necessary deciding if the shot is safe because I do hesitate, but that is getting better now that I am getting more experienced and know my ground inside out. I'd rather be safe than sorry - it is only a rabbit that will be there another day!

 

But even applying my slightly OCD tendencies to my 'is the shot safe' decision, I still had a ricochet with the .22lr. It was on soft, recently ploughed ground in the middle of the field. I think it must have caught a stone just under the surface as the ground looked, and felt good!

 

I also find the word 'backstops' very subjective in the shooting fraternity. As I have said in my original post, viewing videos of others idea of a backstop gives me the willies!

 

Does anyone have any general rules that you apply to your decision making for taking a shot out of interest?

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I'm in the same situation, my land lends itself to LARGE amount of ricochet, so similar to you I use the hmr for almost all of my rabbit shooting, and only use the .22 on other land I have that is less likely to cause this problem.

 

I'm not a fan of the FAC air, but, if its the right tool for the job, its the right tool!

+1

Identical problem as the farm is on the edge of a pebble bed heath - you might have heard of Woodbury Common at Exmouth. Some figures from the Sierra Infinity Ballistic Suite - max' range of a 22LR subsonic, 1785 yards and for a ricochet with a reduced by, say, 1/2 velocity and the BC halved because of bullet distortion is still 724 yards. Now, I don't know whether this is correct in practise, but suffice to say your (our) concern is justified. While making use of the natural back-stops, I shoot from the top of the truck in order to minimize the chances. My oppo, however, is now using FAC air at just under 30 ft/lbs with superb results out to ranges beyond which the HMR would arguably be the better option than the LR. Could be your way to go.

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I'm not so sure that the problem is as bad as you fear.

 

What I mean by that is that a 22LR is a very quiet round - especially if you are using a moderator and subs. As such, you are far more likely to hear a ricochet, and (if using subs) the round impacting the ground and ricocheting will be noticably later than the sound of the shot due to the slowness of the round.

Is it that we all don't hear 223, HMR, etc. ricocheting because the round is so much faster, and the 'crack' or the shot is so much louder ?

 

I've been on plenty of ranges (a few years back) when 5.56 / 7.62 was in use, and you do see a surprising number of tracers flying off in all directions.

 

Like you, I'm very aware of it, and have also considered changing my 22LR for FAC air. I'm also somewhat terrified by some shots I see taken on shooting videos where the 'backstop' isn't something I'd be at all happy shooting into !

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Thanks guys, I'm glad it isn't just me - if nothing else! Maybe a swap to fac air is the next logical step for me, just a shame as I do love the consistency I'm getting out of my cz with winchester subsonics.

 

Wymberley, thanks for that, it really is frightening when the figures are shown!

Edited by marnold
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Of course it depends on the ground and other geographic factors but I shoot over 2,000 rounds of 22LR moderated subs each year after rabbits and I don't remember the last time I had a ricochet. But I don't shoot on flat or stoney ground.

 

(Just seen Dunkield's post and just wanted to add that my shooting isn't in Bucks!!!)

Edited by Glenshooter
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Thanks for all of your input guys!

 

I think I'm going to give it a go off sticks this week, picking my shots very carefully, i.e. only on the grass verges with a good angle etc. I think a lot of people would probably laugh at the shots I pass on - I even kick myself sometimes as I often find, once the moment passes, it would have been a perfectly acceptable shot. I think it's just a confidence thing and the thought of all that energy in the little bullet is daunting!

 

If this fails and I can't increase my confidence, I think I might be looking to swap for an fac air. All I really know about fac air is to go .22 rather than .177, so any advice from fac air owners is welcomed :good:

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I was in a similar situation, I bought my 22lr and loved how accurate cheap and quiet it was........BUT, after 6 weeks and 5/6 outings I was basically afraid of it because of the ricochets I was getting even off very good back stops.

I sold the .22lr on here and bought a FAC .22 Daystate Huntsman running at 30ftlb.
I to date have yet to have a ricochet (that I know of) and its outing bunnies down hard and avian quarry also with no worry for the breast bone like with sub 12ftlb rifles.
I shoot this to 65/70 yards happily, the .22lr I only went to 80/85 with anyway. So no real loss and I am 100% happy with my FAC Air, am also happy using on shots into trees in a few places on my grounds.
And no ammo restrictions on the air rifle, so I bought 10 tins for £100ish and that’s 5000 shots at 0.02 a shot, with air on top say its a penny a shot! Dive bottle refills are only £1.

ATB

Matt

Edited by salop sniper
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I was in a similar situation, I bought my 22lr and loved how accurate cheap and quiet it was........BUT, after 6 weeks and 5/6 outings I was basically afraid of it because of the ricochets I was getting even off very good back stops.

 

I sold the .22lr on here and bought a FAC .22 Daystate Huntsman running at 30ftlb.

I to date have yet to have a ricochet (that I know of) and its outing bunnies down hard and avian quarry also with no worry for the breast bone like with sub 12ftlb rifles.

I shoot this to 65/70 yards happily, the .22lr I only went to 80/85 with anyway. So no real loss and I am 100% happy with my FAC Air, am also happy using on shots into trees in a few places on my grounds.

And no ammo restrictions on the air rifle, so I bought 10 tins for £100ish and that’s 5000 shots at 0.02 a shot, with air on top say its a penny a shot! Dive bottle refills are only £1.

 

ATB

 

Matt

Brilliant, thanks Matt. I really don't want to get rid of the .22lr, but I also really want something for in between the sub 12ftlb and the hmr. I'm think I'm going to give the .22lr another crack first and take it from there.

 

What is the trajectory like on a .22 FAC Air at 30 ftlb? I have a Wolverine B in sub 12ftlbs already, so I would probably want an FAC version of that or maybe a Huntsman Classic/Regal (depending on availability/reliability!).

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the amo you use can make a big differance.

I use winchester most of the time but thought I'd give rws a try as that was all i could get, never again!

I had a big increas in ricochetts, even after hitting rabbits at 40 ish yards. When i looked at the bullets I found that the hollow in the piont was a smaller diamiter and not as deep as the winchesters, so I tried a few rws and winchesters at some bits of ply the rws went though about an inch and a half, the winchesters made it about 9/10 the way. after some more ply the stop the rws i checked the bullets the winchesters were just a mashed bit of lead and the rws still looked like a bullet.

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I zero at 40 yards with 16gn JSB and on 10x mag at 50yards am on the bottom of the cross hair almost a half mildot, 55 yards is roughtly 1 mil dot and 65yars is 1.75 mildot. 70yards i just put the second mil dot on the top of buunys head !

 

To give you an idea though, go on Chair gun and select the half mil dot ret, .22 cal 21.3996grn bisley magnum @ 800.80 fps and you will get an idea of aim points/trajectory for the hevier pellet. Although nearly everyone I know with FAC AIR now uses 16 & 18gn ammo, only one guy with a a rapid I know of is running 21gn magnums but at 34ftlb.

 

If your ever in the area and want a bash with a FAC AIr rifle to see what it does on quarry and target your welcome to have a go on mine !

 

Its also worth asking about FAC AIR performance to: Deputy Dog (Gareth), Evo (Bob) & Eccles (Terry)as they are well experienced with FAC AIR and rimfires and sub 12ftlb inc CF.

 

ATB

 

Matt

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Personal experience suggest to me you guys may be over reacting! The whistle you hear is from a severely miss shaped mangled chunk spinning enough to produce a whistle. It does not last long however.

It is another way energy is being converted. That and the increased air drag that must be to cause the whistle in the first place I doubt most go beyond 200yds!

To assume a whistling 22 bullet still has its original shape and under the original control of the rifling is folly!

The rate the whistle decreases is quite likely the rate the bullet is slowing by, as in fast!

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Personal experience suggest to me you guys may be over reacting! The whistle you hear is from a severely miss shaped mangled chunk spinning enough to produce a whistle. It does not last long however.

It is another way energy is being converted. That and the increased air drag that must be to cause the whistle in the first place I doubt most go beyond 200yds!

To assume a whistling 22 bullet still has its original shape and under the original control of the rifling is folly!

The rate the whistle decreases is quite likely the rate the bullet is slowing by, as in fast!

Being somewhat deaf it's of no consequence, but it must be a comfort to those with unimpaired hearing to learn that all ricochets whistle audibly.

Edited by wymberley
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I zero at 40 yards with 16gn JSB and on 10x mag at 50yards am on the bottom of the cross hair almost a half mildot, 55 yards is roughtly 1 mil dot and 65yars is 1.75 mildot. 70yards i just put the second mil dot on the top of buunys head !

 

To give you an idea though, go on Chair gun and select the half mil dot ret, .22 cal 21.3996grn bisley magnum @ 800.80 fps and you will get an idea of aim points/trajectory for the hevier pellet. Although nearly everyone I know with FAC AIR now uses 16 & 18gn ammo, only one guy with a a rapid I know of is running 21gn magnums but at 34ftlb.

 

If your ever in the area and want a bash with a FAC AIr rifle to see what it does on quarry and target your welcome to have a go on mine !

 

Its also worth asking about FAC AIR performance to: Deputy Dog (Gareth), Evo (Bob) & Eccles (Terry)as they are well experienced with FAC AIR and rimfires and sub 12ftlb inc CF.

 

ATB

 

Matt

Thanks Matt, both for the info and the offer, it is greatly appreciated mate :good:

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Being somewhat deaf it's of no consequence, but it must be a comfort to those with unimpaired hearing to learn that all ricochets whistle audibly.

I've heard plenty of air rifle pellets whistle or 'twang' as they ricochet off hard ground or strike a stone.

 

Again, I think a lot of it is down to how quiet a PCP air rifle or 22LR (especially with moderator and subs) is when shooting. Quite simply, you don't hear a HMR or C/F calibre ricocheting due to the noise of the shot being fired, and due to the round impacting (and ricocheting) so soon after the noise of the shot. With a 22LR travelling at 1000 fps, even a strike on the ground at 60 yards away is 0.2 seconds after the shot, certainly plenty of time to differentiate between the muted sound of the shot and the impact/ricochet sound. With a HMR or equivalent the supersonic 'crack' masks that sound

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Also a quote from another forum:

 

For anyone wondering how accurate a .22 Air Wolf can be out to 100 yards, here is a video I recorded using my scope cam. The target was 100 yards out and I emptied the entire 10 round magazine into a .52" group (center to center). The shot JSB 18.1 gr lubed pellet (unsorted) and was laying on the ground which was rocky and uncomfortable. Plus, my MTM Predator rest kept wobbling. Since I live in Arizona, you will notice the heat waves which plaid havoc on the site picture. I was shooting on Hi Power which shoots the 18.1gr JSB around 920-930 fps. Energy is right around 36 ft/lbs. I had a full Huggett moderator and shroud and had removed the barrel band.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1/2 inch at 100yards with 18grn Pellets at 36ftlb. Now thats some shooting but gives you an idea what FAC Air can produce. Although this standard I would say is an exception and not the rule !

 

ATB

 

Matt

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