12g Steel Shot

[NickB65]

I am looking to move from the trad lead to steel shot for my pigeon shooting and I wondered if anyone was currently shooting pigeon with steel and which cartridge they are using and how they have found the change from lead to steel.

 

I currently shoot Gamebore Clear Pigeon 32g 6 but looking to move to the steel.

 

Why? Well there seems to be more game dealers wanting pigeon only shot with steel than dealers wanting birds shot with lead. Finding it hard to go shooting when I have a freezer full of birds and I can not shift them. If they were shot with steel then I would have no issue.

 

I primarily shoot as crop protection for our farm land so selling them on is a second element but I hate waste and binning perfectly good meat seems wrong..... still have to shoot them hence the move to steel.

[Guest cookoff013]

2 schools of thought.....

 

traditional 32g #4 steel, about £210/1000 shells gamebore......

 

or go cheap

 

24g #7 steel for £150/1000 shells

 

if you get them close then certainly the latter would do the job. i would make changes such as (cylinder choke / skeet / 1/4 ) and check whats what at 30 yards.

i slate these for pigeon shooting, but i love the classic 32/6.

cook.

[allanm]

As above ,I've used 24gr 7 and there fine up to sensible range I'd say 40 yrd Max or you get a lot of runners and that was with at least 3\4 choke and preferably full

My home loads are 28 gr 3.25mm (no 4) and that combo IMO is perfect but there are doing around 1550+ ft/sec so considerably faster as well

[oliver90owner]

Are we really talking about steel through full choke?

[motty]

Are we really talking about steel through full choke?

Sounds like it. Nothing wrong with that.

[TIDES EDGE]

NickB65 go with Gamebore Super Steel 32gm either 4 or 5 shot through what ever choke you find best and you wont be dissapointed.

[johnnytheboy]

RC Atomic steel are without doubt the best of the 32g loads, RioBlue Steel and Gamebore super steel are really effective. If you home load the the 28g lightening steel loads are exceptionally good.

[RossEM]

Are we really talking about steel through full choke?

This is a common misconception that's been made for years.

 

CIP's choke recommendations apply only to steel loads exceeding shot size 3 - which are by default HP loads, and can't be used in guns which haven't been proofed for steel anyway.

 

Standard steel loads can be fired through any choke in any modern gun - in fact, I've been shooting standard steel 4s through my 1/4 & 3/4 choked 12 bore and previously in a 1/2 & Full choked 20 bore for approaching ten years.

 

CIP do recommend using half choke or less in 'traditional lightweight game guns', so an old gun with tight chokes may suffer from choke bulging, but after regular research I've still yet to see any evidence of this (despite the scaremongering twaddle that Ian Summerell has been peddling online.)

 

Read more here basc.org.uk/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php?id...

[motty]

This is a common misconception that's been made for years.

 

CIP's choke recommendations apply only to steel loads exceeding shot size 3 - which are by default HP loads, and can't be used in guns which haven't been proofed for steel anyway.

 

Standard steel loads can be fired through any choke in any modern gun - in fact, I've been shooting standard steel 4s through my 1/4 & 3/4 choked 12 bore and previously in a 1/2 & Full choked 20 bore for approaching ten years.

 

CIP do recommend using half choke or less in 'traditional lightweight game guns', so an old gun with tight chokes may suffer from choke bulging, but after regular research I've still yet to see any evidence of this (despite the scaremongering twaddle that Ian Summerell has been peddling online.)

 

Read more here basc.org.uk/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php?id...

This is also a common misconception.

[NickB65]

Found this interesting article.....

 

http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/reviews/shotgun/steel-shot-cartridges-review

 

Might have to give the Gamebore a try.

[RossEM]

This is also a common misconception.

Quite right Motty, I messed up there.

 

No standard steel cartridges with shot larger than 3 are commercially available s far as I'm aware (though they could be home-loaded), however if they were commercially available, their boxes should be marked 'for use in steel proofed guns only.'

 

My sentence should have read: "CIP's choke recommendations for the use of standard steel loads in non steel proofed guns apply only to loads exceeding shot size 3 - which in any case cannot be used in guns which are not proofed for steel."

[archi]

Also it would appear CIP state you can shoot HP steel up to 4mm through any superior steel proofed gun even through full choke.

They recommend no more than half for BB (4mm) and above steel shot though

[RossEM]

You can shoot any steel load through a steel proofed gun as long as the cartridge case length corresponds to the gun's chamber length, and yes Archi CIP do recommend using half choke or less if the shot is size BB or large

[Guest cookoff013]

You can shoot any steel load through a steel proofed gun as long as the cartridge case length corresponds to the gun's chamber length, and yes Archi CIP do recommend using half choke or less if the shot is size BB or large

Steel proof? Is that the fleur de lyse? That is the stamp for proofing to 1320bar the HP criteria of pressure.

HP 1050bar shells can also be lead, tungsten, steel, bismuth etc.

The fleur de lyse is a representation of HP proof testing.

 

I think there was an article to do with guntrade assoc. Recommending 1/4 choke or less.

 

Also even with this superior pressures of HP. There still is a speed limit in force 430m/s maybe to protect the choke from excessive wear.

 

In the states they replace chokes every season / often.

[NickB65]

Thanks guys..... I have a few normal carts to finish off and will off-load the pigeons I have first and then switch to steel and see how we get on.

 

I appreciate the replies and time...

 

thank you.

[Guest cookoff013]

Let us know what you do and how you progress.

 

What I would do in your situation is try a box of each. Every now and then I reload and buy shells just to see what I am missing or gaining.

[subsonicnat]

Shorter Distances for STEEL Shot, They lose energy Very Quickly.

If Not You Will Wound a hell of a lot, Go bigger in pellets is the way forward with steel.

[Catamong]

Shorter Distances for STEEL Shot, They lose energy Very Quickly.

If Not You Will Wound a hell of a lot, Go bigger in pellets is the way forward with steel.

 

Yes, that's exactly what thought, as it appears to make perfect sense, but, out on the field over decoys I found the exact opposite to be true, in fact I had more runners with larger shot than I did with 7.5's, and I tried a good number of different loads, up to 36g 4's..

 

I've now settled on the perfect load for decoyed pigeons, which for me is a Gamebore Black Gold 28g Steel in 7.5 through a 3/8, (Light Mod) choke.

 

Cat.

[Scully]

I'm going to steel for all my decoying merely based on the cost. I have found that Gamebore Super Steel 4's and SAGA 4's do very well on Ducks through my non-steel proofed guns so am going down to at least 7's in steel for all my decoying, through at least 3/4 if not Full.

I have found 32 grm Gamebore Super Steel 4's through 3/4 choke are quite punchy, even in an auto, but are devastating on bolting bunnies, so am hoping the 28 grm in whichever make I settle on will be much milder.

[RossEM]

The fleur de lys symbol is only stamped on guns which have passed Steel Proof testing; that is to say they can withstand the extra pressure created by HP steel cartridges, and that the barrels can withstand the harder density of steel shot.

[RossEM]

 

Yes, that's exactly what thought, as it appears to make perfect sense, but, out on the field over decoys I found the exact opposite to be true, in fact I had more runners with larger shot than I did with 7.5's, and I tried a good number of different loads, up to 36g 4's..

 

I've now settled on the perfect load for decoyed pigeons, which for me is a Gamebore Black Gold 28g Steel in 7.5 through a 3/8, (Light Mod) choke.

 

Cat.

You might be having more success with 7s as a result of the sheer amount of shot in the cartridge, steel cartridges contain more pellets in comparison with lead...

[Scully]

The fleur de lys symbol is only stamped on guns which have passed Steel Proof testing; that is to say they can withstand the extra pressure created by HP steel cartridges, and that the barrels can withstand the harder density of steel shot.

None of my guns have been proofed for steel shot but I know they can handle even HP steel shot as I've used it through them on many occasions but admittedly through nothing tighter than 1/2 choke with the exception of one occasion.

I'm not sure what you mean by the underlined passage above, as a twelve bore steel shot charge isn't compressed any more than a twelve bore lead shot charge anywhere inside a barrel until it meets the constriction at a choke. A steel proofed gun barrel will still be ruined as much as a non-steel proofed barrel if the steel shot comes into contact with the internal bores at anytime before leaving the muzzle, choke or not.

[NickB65]

Let us know what you do and how you progress.

 

What I would do in your situation is try a box of each. Every now and then I reload and buy shells just to see what I am missing or gaining.

 

Well I am going to by a couple of boxes of Gamebore Super Steel 32g 4 and Black gold 28g 7.5 and we shall see how we get on. I won't be ou this weekend as I have my children but may be out mid-week :-)

 

I will try and get the Go Pro set-up as well and will report back.

[RossEM]

None of my guns have been proofed for steel shot but I know they can handle even HP steel shot as I've used it through them on many occasions but admittedly through nothing tighter than 1/2 choke with the exception of one occasion.

I'm not sure what you mean by the underlined passage above, as a twelve bore steel shot charge isn't compressed any more than a twelve bore lead shot charge anywhere inside a barrel until it meets the constriction at a choke. A steel proofed gun barrel will still be ruined as much as a non-steel proofed barrel if the steel shot comes into contact with the internal bores at anytime before leaving the muzzle, choke or not.

That's a pretty dangerous thing to do. The pressures created by HP steel cartridges can be far greater those which your gun is designed to be used with - it's a huge risk to take to fire any cartridge (whether lead or steel or whatever) that creates greater pressure at the chamber than that which your gun is proofed for. Essentially what you're doing is what the Proof House does - except they're in the next room when they do it. You might well have done it and got away with it, but someone doing the same will end up with a barrel burst and, potentially, a few less fingers.

 

Yes, correct about choke, I should have put that instead of 'barrel' - from BASC Technical:

 

For steel/steel-like shot, a different process is involved. A standard or superior/magnum-proved gun can fire Standard steel shot cartridges, subject to conditions. To fire High Performance steel, it has to have passed Steel Shot proof, a more rigorous test of the gun’s ability to handle the different pressures (same as high performance lead) and shot hardness of steel/steel-like shot cartridges. A gun successfully passing Steel Shot proof has to be stamped with a Fleur de Lys on its barrel.

 

I interpret the underlined as that some quite meaty HP steel cartridges are used in the Steel Proof process, and that the potential for shot hardness affecting the barrels (choke end) is higher with HP steel (possibly as a result of produced pressure?), hence non-steel proofed guns being safe to use with Standard steel cartridges using ANY choke...not sure if this is correct

[Scully]

That's a pretty dangerous thing to do. The pressures created by HP steel cartridges can be far greater those which your gun is designed to be used with - it's a huge risk to take to fire any cartridge (whether lead or steel or whatever) that creates greater pressure at the chamber than that which your gun is proofed for. Essentially what you're doing is what the Proof House does - except they're in the next room when they do it. You might well have done it and got away with it, but someone doing the same will end up with a barrel burst and, potentially, a few less fingers.

 

Fair enough, but what you have to bear in mind is that the proof marks on any gun are only an indication of what the gun was proofed at and not what it is capable of. No one can tell you that that particular gun will blow up if that proof level is exceeded any more than they can tell you it wont. I know my guns can take it because I've proved them to be capable.

I own a 20 bore shotgun which has no proof marks on it whatsoever, but I know it can handle 20 bore cartridges simply because it does.