rich1985 Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 For the first time I'm releasing a few Ex layers. Got them very cheap so thought worth a go. I have heard mixed thoughts on them, some saying there ok and some saying waste of time and money but I'm going to just experiment with a few and leg ring them and see what happens. Any thoughts people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) This question comes up every year. We buy 125 each June (picking this years batch up this Saturday) and this will be our fifth season with them and have no complaints whatsoever. We don't have them clipped and release them into our pen where they come and go as they please. They mix in with the remainder of last years birds which still inhabit our shoot. They are soft skinned and have little muscle tone but by the season start they are well developed and good strong birds which get stronger as the season goes on. We bought a little Brinsea incubator for the landowners mother, as they lay loads of eggs, and she rears as many as she can which stay in the shed with her chickens right through winter. Another shoot locally just release theirs straight into the undergrowth and let them get on with it. They have a good shoot. We got 88% returns, but there are two shoots within a mile or so of us. Edited June 11, 2015 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 We have always had Ex-lays as needs must but they havent been very good to date. This year we are trying some a new type from a different rearer and we are putting them in the pen with clipped wings ! Fingers crosses for a better return this year. Hopefully they will draw the c0ck birds in between the end of the month and the start of the season giving us more shooting than previously. ATB Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Are u sure u can clip ex layers wings? If birds throu the moult will not grow back till net year, have heard of them being pulled before. Scully are ur's and ur neighbours upland shoots? I know of a few pt and ft keepered shoots in the uplands that shoot fantastic returns every year, in an upland shoot the birds hve less possibilty to wander as long as u can keep them in the top of the glen.. The ammount of food the ex-layers eat between now and when u get the poults and they are growing and eating a bit, there really will not be that much money saving unless ur gettin birds very cheap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 We are always asked if we want our ex-layers clipped and we always say no. I was advised by the NGO that there is a chance they will not be fully recovered by seasons start, so we don't do it. Our shoots are in the Eden Valley so at Pennine Fell bottoms so to speak, and the reason we get ex-layers is because we all work full time so can only spare time during one day most weekends and evenings when the nights are lighter. Our rough shoot (where we release our ex-layers) consists of three working farms, so we have no facilities nor the time to raise from chicks or poults. The birds are fed while they're in the pen, but within a week or so most have left and therefore feed wherever they find food. There is one cock bird in each crate of 16 birds we buy and it isn't long before resident cocks from last season come a calling and then the birds are enticed out and left to their own devices. We are paying £2.75 per bird; same as last year. There is often a spell where we see no birds at all just prior to the shooting season which causes us to panic for a while, but come the season, come the birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Ur very lucky then, don't think u'd get away with that on a low ground shoot. Ur only talking another 70odd p and u can buy poults but u just have to do wot suits ur shoot. We do get ex layer grey partridge and i must admit there not as good as buying poults but half the price so very hard to make the jump to poults again, thought seriously about it this year but going with ex layers again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 We bought three pairs of Redlegs last season as the landowners Mam likes to see them around the place and we never saw them all season at all, but as soon as the shooting stopped they reappeared and we're still seeing them occasionally now. We start topping up our feeders for ex-layers around October and feed right through until insects start flitting about again. They will roost in the woods across the river which is another shoot, but always come back to our side to feed. My nephew and a few mates of his bought a few dozen ex-layers one year just to supplement whatever was around on their small rough shoot, and ringed them all. They shot well over 100% but not one of them was ringed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonnford Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Hi this is my second season with the small farm shoot We currently buy 250 ex layers and have a pen in a 3-4 acre wood currently there aren't anything to hold birds only the pen which has feeders and drinkers but very little roosting any suggestions as to what can be done to hold birds in the pen and around this wood. The ex layers turn up within the next 7 to 10 dayswhich doesn't leave us much time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Can the not roost in the woods? You could always erect wooden structures spanning between trees as roosting bars. As for ensuring they don't stray my nephew and his friends fenced off an entire wood with chicken wire and ensured there were plenty of feeders and drinking water available. Hand scattering of feed in rides etc encourages birds in also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonnford Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Thanks scully My thoughts were to put roosting bars upbut wasn't sure. would batten be ok or should we use fallen branches.I guess I could try to lay the top 3rd of some of the small trees across on to other trees. as for rides there aren't any so will have to create such an area.we don't really scatter corn at the moment but do have a good number of feeders on the shoot but probably not in the best areas ie so it easy to maintain.thinking of putting up some dusting shelters with a bit of straw beneath if have enough time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Scully, you saying about ringing the birds and shooting none with rings. On our old shoot one of the guns bought a dozen eggs to hatch in a incubator for his kids to see hatch, he ended up with 10 that he ringed. We also had some rings and most days after the shoot one of us would ring a dead bird or two. He used to go home really happy and show his kids, he only caught on after he had taken about 15 birds back through the season. We never shot one of the original birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Thanks scully My thoughts were to put roosting bars upbut wasn't sure. would batten be ok or should we use fallen branches.I guess I could try to lay the top 3rd of some of the small trees across on to other trees. as for rides there aren't any so will have to create such an area.we don't really scatter corn at the moment but do have a good number of feeders on the shoot but probably not in the best areas ie so it easy to maintain.thinking of putting up some dusting shelters with a bit of straw beneath if have enough time Batten would be fine I would think; we used some old rail bar we had laying about. Everything else you're doing seems fine to me. I'm no expert but can only go from experience and relay what has worked for us and others I know. The NGO are very good at getting back in touch if you're a member, we've had good advice from professional vets etc on all manner of bird care. Straw is a good idea as they love to ratch about looking for grubs, just like chickens. The placement of feeders isn't an exact science either; just ensure you have plenty about but don't be surprised if they don't get used too much as there is plenty of insect life about at the moment. Good luck. Scully, you saying about ringing the birds and shooting none with rings. On our old shoot one of the guns bought a dozen eggs to hatch in a incubator for his kids to see hatch, he ended up with 10 that he ringed. We also had some rings and most days after the shoot one of us would ring a dead bird or two. He used to go home really happy and show his kids, he only caught on after he had taken about 15 birds back through the season. We never shot one of the original birds. Amazing isn't it? One of the lads in our rough shoot also shoots as a guest on another fairly close shoot to ours. They ring their birds and he takes great delight in ringing up the other shoot and telling them when we've shot one. A couple of seasons ago he handed back six rings, but kept the birds of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttfjlc Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 We bought 250 ex-layers last week and have now just started to let a few out at a time, so far every bird is hanging around the pen but we all know they won't do that forever. We was more impressed with just how many eggs they were still laying, so far we have 180 eggs in 2 incubators and around 20 under 2 broody hens so looking forward to 3 weeks time to see how many hatch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Out of 125 ex-layers we picked up just over a week ago, we have found 4 dead and collected 17 eggs, I think. I can't recall how many we collected last year but it was much more than this. They are presently in the incubator in landowners Mams conservatory. One or two take off whenever I go into the pen to scatter feed around, but most land in the larger enclosure surrounding the inner one. Those that have made it out completely spend most of the day trying to get back in, and I rather think my dog pegged one such bird this evening as she came back to me with hen feathers in her mouth. Hopefully it got away, minus a few feathers. They are already strong fliers. Landowner is due to finish silaging within a couple of days so perhaps we'll open up a few pop-holes later this week. So far, fingers crossed, nothing has come a calling; there are no signs of attempted entry but one or two dead corvids I hung on the fence to keep birds off the cover crop have been carried off, so we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 How long are you leaving your ex layers in the pen for before releaseing them ? ATB Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) It depends really. We have a pen of about 15m square within another pen of about 100m x 50m which was originally the farm orchard, so there is plenty of cover and trees to roost in. The birds are put in the inner pen which has shelters, drinkers, feeders etc but if they want to get out they can by simply flying over into the outer pen or right out of that one also, but then they have to fend for themselves. Most tend to stay where we put them unless startled and we prefer to keep as many as possible in until the silage has been cut, as our landowner usually only does one cut, and then we open the potholes and they are then free to wander in and out at will. All in all around 3 to 4 weeks. As I've said, another shoot not far from us simply release theirs onto their shoot. They have no pens at all and rely on feeding well. Even after ours have been released in late June, we don't start topping up our feeders until about September or October, depending on insect life. We have some cover crops but very little, and it only amounts to thin strips here and there. We may be able to grow a bit more when the farm comes out of stewardship next year. This is our rough shoot and it isn't by any means a prestigious high bird shoot. We do get some very good birds but it is primarily a DIY job to be shared amongst 6 of us plus a few invited close friends, who of course invite us onto theirs. We have good craic, endless ****taking and just enjoy the day; the bag is of secondary importance. Had to censor that myself! There's one you missed mods. Edited June 23, 2015 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 We are similar, we have alot of land to go at and have available to us: 9 Small woods/ coppice`s 3 cover crops 1 small pond Our birds arrive in the next week or so which am real excited about, the pen is all sorted and everything ready to go. I have never been this envolved before so its like being a kid at christmas. I cant wait untill the season so I can take a bird or two home prepare them and eat them having done the work partys, seen the bird into the pen, continued to feed and then had the shooting also. Its set to be very rewarding. I dont know how long they will stay in the pen for but I guess around 6 weeks fom what ive herd said. I really belive we have better feed and birds this year so am really hoping we have bigger bags than last year ! ATB Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttfjlc Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Ah yes the dead ones, I forgot about them, I think we have lost 6 so far. Strange thing was we lost 4 in 3 days, fine for 3 days then 2 more in the past 2 days?! Have you any idea how yours have died? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 No idea sorry. We always have a few casualties. Some have bare patches on their backs and others can sometimes relentlessly peck away at other birds which show signs of bleeding so I'm told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttfjlc Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Ok cheers, the feather pecking idea seems to make sense as we have a few with bare backs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Strictly speaking the bare backs are caused by the cocks 'treading' them rather than feather pecking u'd get with poullts. But the other birds will still pick on sickly r weak ones. Wot do u boys feed ur ex layers on intially?? In a laying pen is pretty hard going on a hen pheasant so they often will be in poor nick when u get ex-layers, it cannae be helped, they would probably benefit from some pellets/high protien feed to start of with + some eltrolytes or something in the water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 We used to buy the medicated grit type feed (only a bag or so) when we picked up the birds, and throw it in with barley or corn from the farm, but the grit is largely ignored so we don't bother with that anymore. We buy the odd bag of mixed corn, maize etc and mix it in also. We put nothing in the water but it's maybe something we should do in future. The birds are looking well and alert now, and are becoming good strong fliers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Never heard of medicated grit for pheasants (grouse yes) althou that doesnae mean it doesnae exist. I still put grit in my pens for poults some years they use it some they don't but it's 1 less thing they have to wander to find. Think birds needing grit will depend on ur soil/geology if plenty of fine stone grit sized stone around naturally Feeding either a growers or release pellet with higher protien (dunno if laying pellets still encourages them to lay??) would help them recover quicker put on wieght and feather, but more expensive. More and more commercial shoots seem to put stuff in the water the 1st few days after release, so there must be someting in it? As it costs money if they're was no benefit i doubt it would be done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 I have no idea if it is exclusively meant for pheasants or not; it could well be the same stuff they give to grouse. We no longer buy it anyhow, we just feed them home grown barley/wheat and that's about it. They seem to do ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 The medicated stuff for grouse is meant purely for grouse, meant to be only sold under a vets perscription, dinae think pheasants get strongyleosis, certainly never heard of it, possibly they can harbour some on moorland fringes with high grouse numbers. Never ever heard of medicated grit for any other bird as always easier to put in feed or water to guarantee all the birds are dosed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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