Underdog Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) If the above snail evolved by its little self, how did it design and acquire the know how to build its shell? U. Edited June 21, 2015 by Underdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 A good point UD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marki Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Not sure If I understand the question? Terrestrial snails evolved from marine snails roughly 350 million years ago, Marine snails evolved from other Molluscs, a bit like limpets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 The real question is if it didn't evolve that way who gets the credit for making it so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 The real question is if it didn't evolve that way who gets the credit for making it so. Underdog as he has been making his own shells for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 The real question is if it didn't evolve that way who gets the credit for making it so. Underdog as he has been making his own shells for years. All bow down to Lord Underdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 The real question is if it didn't evolve that way who gets the credit for making it so. I think you really need to go on an American forum to kick off that discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Underdog as he has been making his own shells for years. Lol. If logic says it can not be intelligent enough to design it itself then surely there must be an intelligent designer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Maybe it's not designed, maybe that just happens to be the way they are made due to how they are made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 What do we make without first designing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 That humans, not snails. But we don't design te shape of our feet, the length of out nose. As I understand it, the snail secretes some fluids that then harden into the shell. So I supposed it depends on the shape of it's body, where the glands are located etc. Perhaps we vastly underestimate the intelligence of a snail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marki Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 intelligence can be an hindrance to improving a design through evolution. Nature doesn't need to design, it has time on its side. It can try every possibility, keeping those that improve and removing those that don't. The real question is why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 intelligence can be an hindrance to improving a design through evolution. Nature doesn't need to design, it has time on its side. It can try every possibility, keeping those that improve and removing those that don't. The real question is why?OK,respectfully, if death is a part evolution. Is that not a contradiction? Also why does nearly every living creature resist death, if it is natural? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 OK,respectfully, if death is a part evolution. Is that not a contradiction? Also why does nearly every living creature resist death, if it is natural?I don't think he said death is a part of evolution. Although I think dieing, and dieing without procreating is part of evolution. For instance as snails started, some may have made shells in different shapes, but as they grew were harder to expand their shells with them in such a way that was easy to carry or retract into. These would then die earlier due their flaws. The spiral shape, being the best, meant that those creatures were the ones that over thousands of years passed on more DNA and so now that is the shape of all snails.Then again maybe nature just got it right first time. Or maybe snails are super intelligent. I think the only creatures that defeat natural selection in the main are humans. We have made it easy to live, and procreate for everyone. So those that would have died out or been killed now live on and have children and pass on ther genes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marki Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 OK,respectfully, if death is a part evolution. Is that not a contradiction? Also why does nearly every living creature resist death, if it is natural? Death is only part of evolution in the sense of moving on, more of a clear out. I don't think any other creature has ever acknowledged the meaning of death in that it is the end, it's the drive/instinct to survive that overrides all. It does beg the question of the ultimate purpose, why does it matter? Speaking of matter. It's believed that the matter in the universe is finite. For everything that is created something else is destroyed. How does matter know where to be at the right moment? Is there a queue? Does spliting an atom mean there is a hole somewhere like a bit of missing Mechano? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Good points all. On matter is it all not energy being transformed from one form to another? But what made the energy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marki Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 But what made the energy? Not a clue! I'm going to have to read the 'net tonight, nice question. I can remember a bit about the atomic weight of the component parts dropping by about 0.2 (I probably have the decimal place wrong) when an atom is split which is called something like the nuclear binding energy (or force, struggling now!) I have no idea what happens to that little bit. Anyway, back to your original post. I find the best way to view nature is to not question it, just admire the sheer beauty of it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshMike Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 This is way to deep a thread to look at on a Monday morning. Good pic though bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 That particular snail did not make it's own shell. It used one made by another snail. How does that fit into your theory of evolutionary thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 <script pagespeed_no_defer="">//=d.offsetWidth&&0>=d.offsetHeight)a=!1;else{c=d.getBoundingClientRect();var f=document.body;a=c.top+("pageYOffset"in window?window.pageYOffset:(document.documentElement||f.parentNode||f).scrollTop);c=c.left+("pageXOffset"in window?window.pageXOffset:(document.documentElement||f.parentNode||f).scrollLeft);f=a.toString()+","+c;b.b.hasOwnProperty(f)?a=!1:(b.b[f]=!0,a=a<=b.e.height&&c<=b.e.width)}a&&(b.a.push(e),b.d[e]=!0)};p.prototype.checkImageForCriticality=function(b){b.getBoundingClientRect&&q(this,b)};h("pagespeed.CriticalImages.checkImageForCriticality",function(b){n.checkImageForCriticality(b)});h("pagespeed.CriticalImages.checkCriticalImages",function(){r(n)});var r=function(b){b.b={};for(var d=["IMG","INPUT"],a=[],c=0;c=a.length+e.length&&(a+=e)}b.g&&(e="&rd="+encodeURIComponent(JSON.stringify(s())),131072>=a.length+e.length&&(a+=e),d=!0);t=a;if(d){c=b.f;b=b.h;var f;if(window.XMLHttpRequest)f=new XMLHttpRequest;else if(window.ActiveXObject)try{f=new ActiveXObject("Msxml2.XMLHTTP")}catch(k){try{f=new ActiveXObject("Microsoft.XMLHTTP")}catch(u){}}f&&(f.open("POST",c+(-1==c.indexOf("?")?"?":"&")+"url="+encodeURIComponent(b)),f.setRequestHeader("Content-Type","application/x-www-form-urlencoded"),f.send(a))}}},s=function(){var b={},d=document.getElementsByTagName("IMG");if(0==d.length)return{};var a=d[0];if(!("naturalWidth"in a&&"naturalHeight"in a))return{};for(var c=0;a=d[c];++c){var e=a.getAttribute("pagespeed_url_hash");e&&(!(e in b)&&0=b[e].k&&a.height>=b[e].j)&&(b[e]={rw:a.width,rh:a.height,ow:a.naturalWidth,oh:a.naturalHeight})}return b},t="";h("pagespeed.CriticalImages.getBeaconData",function(){return t});h("pagespeed.CriticalImages.Run",function(b,d,a,c,e,f){var k=new p(b,d,a,e,f);n=k;c&&m(function(){window.setTimeout(function(){r(k)},0)})});})();pagespeed.CriticalImages.Run('/mod_pagespeed_beacon','http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?s=0b47aaa1cb88f54d521665032e8f20ac&app=forums&module=ajax§ion=topics&do=quote&t=314963&p=2850368&md5check=148dcf0c6cea5341a43ee1cdb38439f8&isRte=1,l8PuqRhht8,true,false,V9P7dWbXAWY');//]]></script> &&0 If the above snail evolved by its little self, how did it design and acquire the know how to build its shell? U. Evolution is a matter of necessity the ability to survive and the proliferation of your species, it also takes a very long time, I have sometimes wondered though, about say undiscovered trbes in the Amazon why havnt they evolved at the same pace as western Europeans or Japanese, why have they never felt the urge to invent anything like computers or cars, is it just because they are happy where they are ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 I think it may be the same as why monkeys are no longer evolving into humans, fish onto land etc. Not all infividuals I a species har the capacity to evolve further, or go down a different route. So apes etc that are about now are a different branch to those that evolve into humans, and are on a different evolutionary path. The 'undiscovered' tribes, aren't in competition with other humans, so don't compete and invent better tools and weapons as quickly. Also with a smaller gene pool than larger populations probably wouldn't evolve as quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 I think it may be the same as why monkeys are no longer evolving into humans, fish onto land etc. Not all infividuals I a species har the capacity to evolve further, or go down a different route. So apes etc that are about now are a different branch to those that evolve into humans, and are on a different evolutionary path. The 'undiscovered' tribes, aren't in competition with other humans, so don't compete and invent better tools and weapons as quickly. Also with a smaller gene pool than larger populations probably wouldn't evolve as quickly. See what you mean "but" as evolution is continually evolving and as it can take a huge time, then fish, apes, havnt stopped evolving just doing it more slowly, perhaps the same applies to native amazonians they are now being pushed into a stupidly fast evolution by others, I wonder if (given the chance) what Humans will evolve into Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Yes it's very slow, but there have been no examples found of anything part way between apes and man, so I believe tht evolutionary path has now closed. Also I don't wish to see what humans evolve into, like I said before we have made life so easy for ourselves, the weak and stupid and diseased are no longer killed or dieing off like they would hundreds of years ago, or for most other creatures on the planet. So I think that our evolution is now skewed. I can't remember the name of the film, but there is an animated kids movie where in the future everyone is hugely obese, and ride around on scooters. There will probably be one culture, language, skin colour, etc. although that depends on future wars. As agricultural land becomes scarcer due to the spread of building, I predict wars will be fought over food, and to claim land. New alliances will be made, and there are some exceedingly powerful countries out there, that don't seem as nice to their citizens, that could quite easily make global plays... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marki Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Evolution is a matter of necessity the ability to survive and the proliferation of your species, it also takes a very long time, I have sometimes wondered though, about say undiscovered trbes in the Amazon why havnt they evolved at the same pace as western Europeans or Japanese, why have they never felt the urge to invent anything like computers or cars, is it just because they are happy where they are ? I would suspect that it's down to the amount of time and effort they expend on surviving. You're also confusing technological advancement with biological evolution. There is a strong chance that if you were to bring up an Amazonian baby in a western culture that they would be like the majority of us on an intellectual level. In theory they could be the origin of the next evolutionary branch simply because of there ability to survive without technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Yes it's very slow, but there have been no examples found of anything part way between apes and man, so I believe tht evolutionary path has now closed. Also I don't wish to see what humans evolve into, like I said before we have made life so easy for ourselves, the weak and stupid and diseased are no longer killed or dieing off like they would hundreds of years ago, or for most other creatures on the planet. So I think that our evolution is now skewed. I can't remember the name of the film, but there is an animated kids movie where in the future everyone is hugely obese, and ride around on scooters. There will probably be one culture, language, skin colour, etc. although that depends on future wars. As agricultural land becomes scarcer due to the spread of building, I predict wars will be fought over food, and to claim land. New alliances will be made, and there are some exceedingly powerful countries out there, that don't seem as nice to their citizens, that could quite easily make global plays... And that is advancement? I see that as a contradiction tothe origin of life, whether it be by creation or eevolution, no? Respectfully, is it wise to base a belief on a film? Or a theory of another human being? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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