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Silverbone
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Spring powered is best to start with as it costs less to keep it running!

Gas ram is spring powered but instead of a nice coiled metal spring you get a gas spring (like the ones found on the back of hatchbacks in the 1980s)!

CO2 is pricy to keep running and can be underpowered on cold days (ie below 5 degrees c), but gives you the advantage of being a lower cost pre charged pneumatic system.

PCP is expensive but is generally considered to be better for hunting as it is quieter (as long as you have a suppressor fitted) and does not suffer the cold weather drop off in power that CO2 does.

 

It all depends on what you like and what budget you have!

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It all depends on your budget and your use.

 

PCP is generally easier to shoot accurately and can be moderated to be pretty quiet, downside is that the guns are more expensive and you need the equipment to refill the gun and find a place to recharge your main cylinder, unless you get a hand pump.

 

Springer is the traditional route followed by many an airgunner. Much cheaper to buy and less faff, just cock the gun and off you go. Can be noiser and you have the recoil to contend with for accuracy.

 

If you will be mostly plinking with a bit of hunting I would go for a springer, but if you are going to be doing some serious hunting then a PCP investment would be a good idea.

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silverbone,

 

if its for target shooting and also hunting as you say ,, then my advice would be to get the best you can afford,in pcp and .177,

 

get an AA s200 for low budget,,,,, an AA s410 for mid budget or a Daystate Airwolf MCT if you have deep pockets,all in .177 for the flatter trajectory

 

I would not go for a springer if its target shooting you will be doing,

 

good luck with whatever you choose

 

atb Evo

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what about hw100 .177 ??

a mighty fine rifle, I was just giving examples of a low,mid and high budget rifle, the hw would sit between the s410 and the airwolf,,,

 

I could probably name a lot more but just giving an example of what to look for and also tried and tested around the block rifles,

 

but the HW100 is an excellent rifle,,,,,,,, once you manage to pick it up :lol::lol: :lol:

 

oh and don't forget the hatsan at44, excellent for the price,

 

 

 

 

 

now that will keep mole happy

Edited by evo
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FWIW, MO, if for competitive target shooting? you will not be able to compete with a springer?

Why not...I have entered many a completion when I had my whiscombe recoilless .177 it was as heavy as a tank recoilless and more accurate than my p70 PCP at the time (should never have sold them) it would take a good set up to outscore my fully shimmed,v-glided ,v-mach triggered selected barral hw95 with target stock in a Sinclair front mount it can be as accurate as a ukbr22 .22 lr rifle it regularly achieves between 244-247 at 17-19x which a lot would like to get with there PCP and lr when shooting in bench rest... it is not what you are shooting its the quality as a package what gives results and a fully tuned modded springer is as accurate as a PCP ..and is more rewarding to shoot as its not as sterile

 

I have never found a rammer to be as accurate as a springer and that's having owned various theobens tryins to find the best the most accurate I found was an SLR and only when fitted with the theoben silencer

CO2 rifles are cheaply made and are not very powerful or a good buy

 

If you can afford a PCP remember that's only half the cost you will need to budget in air bottled telescopic sights etc

 

If you want an amazing quality relitivly tuned springer out of the box you can't go wrong with the high end air arms such as the prosport

For a general good quality springer a wh is the choice to go for.. .beware the hw80 is a heavy beast of a gun.the hw95 I love as its light and comes with a quality silencer the hw99s is also a great gun no silencer quality trigger and is relitivly cheap to buy with bullet proof resale. Do not get a BSA lightning compared to the whole they are rubbish same goes for modern term made webleys

 

A second hand wh or high end air arms such as a prosport..would be my choice or the most expensive PCP you can afford

 

the big difference is if you get a quality springer you will keep it for life

 

with a PCP you always sell them on looking for the next one have a look on airgun BBS were you could get a bargain but also search the history of the seller

 

Another tip go to the local gun club speak to the lads they will all let you shoot there guns many costing £1000s take there advice see what they say then decide...

And finally NEVER buy a Chinese or Turkish copy of a WH it is COPY

Edited by psycho
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"Buying the PCP is only half the cost.....you will need to budget for a telescopic sight"-whereas a springer uses the force?

"with a PCP you always sell them on"- best get some of yours on the bay then evo!!

Oh and a tuned modded springer is NOT as accurate as a PCP that has undergone similar work-it may compete and do well in the right hands but by design will never produce the clinical accuracy of a high end PCP.

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"Buying the PCP is only half the cost.....you will need to budget for a telescopic sight"-whereas a springer uses the force?

"with a PCP you always sell them on"- best get some of yours on the bay then evo!!

Oh and a tuned modded springer is NOT as accurate as a PCP that has undergone similar work-it may compete and do well in the right hands but by design will never produce the clinical accuracy of a high end PCP.

Bruno ,,, I totally agree,

 

there are people on here who will argue the toss that a springer is as accurate,,

 

I have used both pcp and springers for many years now and as good as SOME springers are they will not be clinically accurate as a " high end pcp "

 

have to say though that using a springer ( a decent one ) can be very satisfying and a joy to use but would I use one for hunting anymore then the answer would be NO,

 

since using pcp,s my outlook on air rifles has totally changed, I cant believe the difference in accuracy and really to 35yrds there is not much in it but its when you go to the further distances that the pcp comes into its own,

 

my max distance was 35yrds with a hw80 and that was a max distance, now with a pcp I am now taking bunnies out to 55yrds and with pinpoint accuracy, don't get me wrong but I have put the hours in, field testing pellets in different wind conditions etc but in todays day and age anyone not using a top end pcp is fooling themselves or simply does not have the cash to buy one,,( no offence meant )

 

there are a couple of people on here who slate pcp,s and they don't even have one and/or have never used one,, really does make me laugh because if they did take the time to go and try one then they would see just how much air rifles have come on in the last 20 years

 

 

 

PCP,s they really are a joy to use

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.


 

quite an interesting read above,, sorry to go off topic but can I ask what you use for competitive shooting and most importantly why ?

 

it will be interesting to read your reply

 

I no-longer do competitive shooting to much time doing vermin control however I have held onto my competitive rifles and as I get older I will switch back to my prior love of competitive shooting at this time I like to go in the fields but if the weather is bad I will take small nephew to the local club (which I am a member and let him use my gear )It also depends on what type of shooting you are doing for example my shooting rig for bench rest is a sako finnfire were the only original part of the finnfire is the block it has cost me a lot of money over the years to get this gun how I wanted but all the custom parts together offer me a gun which I would be happy with. With this rifle I could enter any competition and come in the top few of the competitors

 

I could give this gun to any 14 year (old who can shoot) and he would beat most club gun users with average guns. My bench rest gun consists of the following:

A sako Finnfire with the following modifications

an original trigger unit removed fitted with a trigger unit which was kurt westall and imported from America it is set to 1.5oz (one point five ounce not pound) trigger pull, this means there is no trigger input on the rifle when pulled it also has a fine safety fitted

the original stock has been binned it was replaced with a varidecicognani stock with a 3.5 inch front it was then perfectly matched with the action having Aluminium plate and pillars fitted to the stock then the trigger action unit was matched to stock by using glass skimming this process took many hours until the action was matched to the stock it then had a billet aluminium trigger guard fitted

 

the original barrel ditched and replaced with a Lilja barrel which has been matched to ten x ammunition so that the barrel whips to the same spot on every firing giving precision

I place it into a Sinclair front mount, the mount is 3.5inch and the stock and mount are machined to 1 thousandth of an inch (with Teflon fitted to the front and rear of the stock) so the gun only moves back and forth with no lateral movement

 

here is a picture of the rifle

sako%201_zpspveyku2m.jpg

 

sako%204_zpsiylmxtvy.jpg

 

once you make a rifle the best of a number of parts you end up with a very accurate rifle the reason why I want accuracy and over the years I have spend £1000s making general rifles a lot more accurate and in the case of air rifles I have made some a thing of beauty here is my mark one model one webley rifle

it is the only one ever to be V-mached, you could say its a v-mach that pushes out a constant 5 foot lbs ( the most underpowered V-mach rifle ever)

Blueing and internals V-Mach

engraving- Don Blocksidge,

stock- ISP

why -- I wanted a work of art from an old rifle

here it is

WM1_RHSeng.jpg
WM1_Left.jpg
WM1_Right.jpg
WM1_RHSBackeng.jpg
WM1_RHSBack3eng.jpg
WM1_RHSFronteng.jpg
WM1_RHSBack2eng.jpg
WM1_Name.jpg
WM1_Trigger-1.jpg
WM1_Back.jpg

 

I have also owned some of the most accurate air rifles ever made including steyr, feinwerkbau, whiscome, v-mach cobra etc and

I still stand by a springer gun which it fully tuned and modified can be as accurate as a pcp.

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"Buying the PCP is only half the cost.....you will need to budget for a telescopic sight"-whereas a springer uses the force?

"with a PCP you always sell them on"- best get some of yours on the bay then evo!!

Oh and a tuned modded springer is NOT as accurate as a PCP that has undergone similar work-it may compete and do well in the right hands but by design will never produce the clinical accuracy of a high end PCP.

Clinical accuracy is good but to achieve the same with a springer is an achievement and more rewarding a good tuned springer will be as accurate as a normal priced pcp but to do the same as a high end on target you will need a gun such as a whiscombe however if using knock down targets such as in field target the good tuned springer can and will give similar results but will require more input from the shooter

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Bruno ,,, I totally agree,

 

there are people on here who will argue the toss that a springer is as accurate,,

 

I have used both pcp and springers for many years now and as good as SOME springers are they will not be clinically accurate as a " high end pcp "

 

have to say though that using a springer ( a decent one ) can be very satisfying and a joy to use but would I use one for hunting anymore then the answer would be NO,

 

since using pcp,s my outlook on air rifles has totally changed, I cant believe the difference in accuracy and really to 35yrds there is not much in it but its when you go to the further distances that the pcp comes into its own,

 

my max distance was 35yrds with a hw80 and that was a max distance, now with a pcp I am now taking bunnies out to 55yrds and with pinpoint accuracy, don't get me wrong but I have put the hours in, field testing pellets in different wind conditions etc but in todays day and age anyone not using a top nd pcp is fooling themselves or simply does not have the cash to buy one,,( no offence meant )

 

there are a couple of people on here who slate pcp,s and they don't even have one and/or have never used one,, really does make me laugh because if they did take the time to go and try one then they would see just how much air rifles have come on in the last 20 years

 

 

 

PCP,s they really are a joy to use

I agree with most of your comments I would not use a springer for hunting greater than 35 yards however as yourself, I do not use a springer for greater distances I use a FAC airwolf MVT which I set for 8 foot lb for close range rats in a barn and 40LB for 70 yard rabbit

 

however as normal target work is at 25yards and hunter field target is is drop down targets the springer is a competent tool and I would advise anyone to enter our sport to use a very good springer such as a WH. for half the outlay they can shoot target and close range vermin infact for close range vermin less than 30 yards and using a sub 12 rifle.

I prefer to use a .25 cal HW95 fully tuned. it is a joy to shoot their is no over penetration and any rats or rabbits just stop its a very under rated calibre which again will do single shot holes at 25 yards

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I bought my TX200HC to be used for hunting and target shooting. And by target shooting he probably means the same thing i do as in shooting paper targets and your usual plinking at home but not going away to proper competitions. But that is just my guess i may be wrong!

I think it's best to start with a good quality springer like air arms of weihrauch in .22 12ft/lb as they will really teach you alot and help you develop alot of useful skills that you wouldn't use with a 30ft/lb pcp .177. Then after a while you can upgrade to a .177 pcp and stretch out the range a bit!

I may be wrong but i was told that weihrauch and AA springers have a great chance at bench rest competitions against all pcps??

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There are videos on youtube of Sandwell tuned springers shooting itty bitty tiny groups and shooting rim fire cases at very respectable distances.

In the seventies and eighties when men were men there was only springers really.

We use to shoot plastic teaspoons stuck in sand to 60yds regular.

If I could of got a more accurate rifle I would not known what to do with the extra accuracy!

In fact my mate did buy on of the first Daystates with a steel tube. It was no better really, so much so he splashed out again for their match trigger. No better.

In fact it was worse, because all that fun shooting that made us handy shots stopped!

 

Its a bit like someone owning a Ferrari on the public road. They the average driver can not really get much more out of it than say a good experienced chap in a tuned Micra!

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I know "get a springer first and learn to shoot proper like" is the sage wisdom handed down by the great and the good, and its a lovely sentiment - but, with the deepest respect, I think its tosh. If your budget can run to it, buy a PCP (and I agree with evo - make it a .177). You will have the best tool for the job - plinking, target shooting, hunting. Yes, you have to figure in the cost of either a bottle or a pump - but I got by for a year by getting mine filled for £1 a time at my gun shop. And if you joined a club to practice at, most have bottles there to fill from for a small fee anyway.

 

Once you find you enjoy shooting and start to look for more challenge, or have an urge to put on those rosey specs of yesteryear - then buy a springer :rolleyes:

 

Taking the car theme above, buying a PCP is like buying a sensible family hatchback, a springer is more like buying a vintage car - lovely once you've mastered it !

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There are videos on youtube of Sandwell tuned springers shooting itty bitty tiny groups and shooting rim fire cases at very respectable distances.

In the seventies and eighties when men were men there was only springers really.

We use to shoot plastic teaspoons stuck in sand to 60yds regular.

If I could of got a more accurate rifle I would not known what to do with the extra accuracy!

In fact my mate did buy on of the first Daystates with a steel tube. It was no better really, so much so he splashed out again for their match trigger. No better.

In fact it was worse, because all that fun shooting that made us handy shots stopped!

 

Its a bit like someone owning a Ferrari on the public road. They the average driver can not really get much more out of it than say a good experienced chap in a tuned Micra!

UD you certainly have a funny way of trying to explain things,

 

what has two cars got to do with a springer and a daystate pcp ???

 

springers can be accurate and there is no doubting that but a top end pcp is in a different league, I was watching the bench resting in America out to 75yrds, springers were put in their own class for people to enter,

 

how many shooters entered the springer class ? only one that's all bud,,,so lets start being realistic about this, you can spend hundreds on getting a springer tuned to the hilt but even once it is done it will not perform better than a mid range pcp,

 

then put the tuned springer against an Airwolf and the Airwolf would make the springer look like it hadn,t been touched, they are in two different leagues,

 

the sooner people realise times have changed and improved and that springers are in the past the sooner people will realise that springers are in the past, Air rifles have been made much simpler to use, I have to laugh when people say " I cant be bothered faffing round with a bottle " WHAT ?

 

I top my Airwolf up and use it for shooting, I don't go near a bottle for weeks due to it being a minimum of 350 shots per charge, when I do refill it , it takes all of 5 seconds to fill and doesn't see the bottle for weeks again, it gets charged twice a year and that's it, what could be more simple,

 

people who slate pcp,s either cant afford a top end pcp or they have never shot one because if they did shoot one they would realise just how Air rifle shooting has been simplified,

 

people moan about the cost of refilling the divers bottle,,WHAT ? it costs me £4 twice a year to fill mine and that's only because I have got numerous pcp,s if I just had 1 then it would be filled once a year ,,, if that,

 

its a shame you didn,t live closer UD as I would let you use one of my daystates and would like to see what you thought because they would not shake a single bone in your body unlike your springer,

 

people whom slate top end pcp,s need to get out and use one because some of the comments being made about them is only making people look fools,

 

springers do have a place and are excellent rifles but can be improved costing a good bit of money but will they perform as good as a top end pcp then I,m sorry but NO THEY WONT , if springers are that good once tuned then why are all the top shooters in competitive shooting using pcp,s, in and out of comps

 

speaks for itself really

 

please note I said " in and out of comps "

 

UD I am not having a go but it seems pretty obvious you enjoy using your springers and good on you sir, but until you use a top end pcp don,t slate them bud because its pretty obvious you don't know what you are on about,

 

all the best to you

 

Evo

 

edit

psycho,,stunning work on your rifles if I must say so myself

 

well done

Edited by evo
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Evo, darling. You mis understand me.

 

Not everyone can afford a Ferrari. A lot that can don't nessasarily become better drivers.

 

Please listen. I have owned PCP, cheap and expensive. Worked on, repaired many PCP.

On the repair score, I have repaired more PCP than springers.

None of my many springers have jumped and twanged during shooting.

Things as you say have not moved on bud. If your out hunting and your rifle suddenly dumps all its air you have zero advantage over a springer.

 

A very important fact at the end of the day often overlooked when the cash is burning a hole in a pocket is, we a talking of a very light projectile with very limited range and over that range most half decent spring guns will reward the shooter at a fraction of the cost.

 

Now my last rabbit with my spring gun in 22 was 55yds in the eye. Nothing jumped around and I saw the pellet on the way.

No checking gauges or counting pellets. Just go!

 

The 'top end' guys are always trying to convince me of something magical existing in their choices of air gun. It doesn't. Then they try to tell me I don't know what I am talking about, lol how presumptouse is that?

 

Never mind.

 

If someone wants to throw vast amounts of cash to chase scores or buy an advantage great. Best to ya.

But your still going to have to shoot and shoot and shoot, because what ever one chooses it us that is the weak link and no amount of money will fix that!

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UD I certainly agree with your last statement that's for sure, because I know some people who couldn,t hit a bulls backside with a shovel never mind a top end pcp,

 

I loved nothing more than going out using a webley and scott mk3 .177 , it certainly accounted for many rabbits and pigeons etc,

 

throwing vast amounts of money at any rifle will not improve the shooter it will just make his hard job easier, a pcp is a lot easier to control than a springer and if the shooter is not up to scratch with a pcp then he certainly wont be with a springer,

 

one thing I have noticed is when I had my hw80 it would take me a few shots to get back into the swing of things but that doesn,t happen with a pcp, I take it out the cabinet and off I go and nothing will have changed, regards a pcp dumping all its air, its never happened to me once , lets remember it is a very high pressure vessel and can be subject to leaks,

 

I bought the pcp,s I own because I wanted the best I could afford that would do the job I wanted them to do,,could I do the same with a springer ? the answer is a simple no

 

I don't doubt your dedication to the sport but you do portray yourself as living in the 50,s ( no offence meant by the way ) you are adamant that a springer is as good as if not better than a top end pcp but I,m sorry UD but you will not convince me it is, I,m not talking about cheap and nasty pcp,s I,m talking about the ones I own and they are not even top end pcp,s

 

think we have totally different opinions bud so it will be best if we leave it there and enjoy our sport with whatever we prefer to use, me a pcp and you a springer,

 

enjoy your weekend bud

 

cheers Evo

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