can of worms (or .17hmr vs .22mag)

[victorismyhero]

hokay getting REAL close to putting in for FAC

 

and had a quick word with my FEO

 

now I will be shooting rabbits near AND far

 

long distance crafty crows

 

and the odd fox

 

cheshire wont issue .17 for fox nor a C/F on first grant (and the land is not really good for CF and has been passed for .22R/F in the past)

 

FEO suggested .22 wmr would be ok

he also suggested I put in for .17 hmr for just the rabbits and long range crows

 

I shall also ask for .22lr for night time rabbits (quieter)

 

now what has got mw wondering is this

 

 

is there that much to choose between .17HMR and .22WMR (OK i know the HMR is flatter shooting, but I can cope with holdover/under) or is there in fact a significant overlap beween the two such that having the WMR would effectively make the the HMR "redundant"

 

Is the extra range on the HMR a massive difference for rabbit "out there"

 

that is to say, provided I do MY job, will it really fill my pantry at 175 yards (and yes, before some wise guy asks I CAN see rabbits at 175 yrds unaided...... at 3 feet no....and yes I've been to specsavers.... )

 

Most of the rabbits will be at around 80 -100 yards and at times when foxy is about

 

and at night I would want to use the LR for the sake of the locals (and it would be good for short range stuff round the barns and buildings..)

 

 

(have I just answered my own question)

 

 

would the above reasoning show "good reason??"

 

 

#confused.com

 

 

 

 

PS should I also put in for FAC air

 

[peek-at]

Can't comment on 22wmr but surely there is a case for having a hmr for longer range rabbits. With its flat trajectory I also like using it at night when ranging is harder. I tend to use it out to 140 yds but in the right hands it will shoot further....

I like to have a .22 rimmy in the cabinet for permissions not suitable for the hmr.

As for an air rifle slot it can be handy to have for shorter range work where you wouldn't want the rimmy. Some will say to just use a .22 rimfire with a low power bullet, but I'm a believer in using the right tool for the job and you would never use a rimmy, even with a low power cartridge around barns/buildings or into a tree. I wouldn't anyway.

If you're after fox get a fox rifle but if its just for the occasional fox that walks into your crosshairs whilst shooting rabbits, an hmr will do the job. Just apply for your hmr assuming rabbit control only.

 

Good luck deciding!....

[victorismyhero]

Can't comment on 22wmr but surely there is a case for having a hmr for longer range rabbits. With its flat trajectory I also like using it at night when ranging is harder. I tend to use it out to 140 yds but in the right hands it will shoot further....

I like to have a .22 rimmy in the cabinet for permissions not suitable for the hmr.

As for an air rifle slot it can be handy to have for shorter range work where you wouldn't want the rimmy. Some will say to just use a .22 rimfire with a low power bullet, but I'm a believer in using the right tool for the job and you would never use a rimmy, even with a low power cartridge around barns/buildings or into a tree. I wouldn't anyway.

If you're after fox get a fox rifle but if its just for the occasional fox that walks into your crosshairs whilst shooting rabbits, an hmr will do the job. Just apply for your hmr assuming rabbit control only.

 

Good luck deciding!....

cant get a "fox rifle" cheshire will not allow C/F on first grant.....nor will they put fox down for .17HMR....barmy if you ask me but still

[Scully]

Whichever you choose, don't specify .22LR or that is what you will end up with and you will not be able to buy a WMR. Specify .22RF, then you can have either.

[Konnie]

can you not apply for hmr as vermin, covers the bases, you wanted, as has been done many times on here shooters capabilities and range, not the rifle that is the downfall.

[Luckyshot]

cant get a "fox rifle" cheshire will not allow C/F on first grant.....nor will they put fox down for .17HMR....barmy if you ask me but still

 

Do Cheshire do AOLQ if so just apply for 22rf 17hmr with AOLQ and job done.

[psycho]

17hmr is a suitable cal for close range fox and is recognised as such.also great for long range rabbit have never used my .22 lr since getting mine for close range I use an FAC air rifle

[39TDS]

I have shot thousands of rabbits over the decades with my .22lr and they are most often in the 30-60 yards range.

I can hit them at 130 yards but it is very rare that is the range that I see them. I really do question that you are likely to be shooting at rabbits 175 yards away.

.17 and wmr are damned noisy. My choice would be .22lr for most stuff and if you have a need for a fox gun then wmr is it (especially if they say you can't have hmr for fox)

I use wmr and I do like it, it certainly stops foxes (but so does a .22lr)

[ghosthunter]

Its the amount of suffering accuracy from wind and rain that puts me off the HMR. Id rather stalk in and take them with something smaller. Field-craft skills improve, more calories burnt, belly fat disappears quicker Rimmy is much cheaper to run than the HMR too.

 

If it was me, Id have a sub 12 air for barns and around buildings. A .22lr for further bunnies (the pair of them will probably cost you less than a FAC air if its any good).

 

I dont know the land but how about asking FEO for something more powerful if shooting from a high seat. A guy around here has a chair that flips over in the back of his pickup so he can shoot from an increased height making it a safer shot.

Edited July 26, 2015 by ghosthunter

[kent]

175 is a long way to hit 2" first shot no sighter with any rimfire so many variables. Drop is not the biggest worry in that

[Underdog]

Never ever had anyone complain from the noise from any rifle of mine at night while they are in front of the tv and have double glazing.

 

Nearly all guns are noisy when it is next to your ear, 100yds away its not too bad

 

 

WMR, naturally

[Albert 888]

All you will ever need is a legal air rifle,22lr,223,308 Rifle wise.

Join a target club and get some practice under your belt. Being in a target club is a good reason to have own a rifle c/f or r/f. Have a look at the fire arms guidelines they are definitely not set in stone as they are guide lines not the law. If you want a do all rifle for rabbits corvids fox,get a small c/f 17 rem,17 fireball,17 hornet,22 hornet,222 or 223.

[victorismyhero]

All you will ever need is a legal air rifle,22lr,223,308 Rifle wise.

Join a target club and get some practice under your belt. Being in a target club is a good reason to have own a rifle c/f or r/f. Have a look at the fire arms guidelines they are definitely not set in stone as they are guide lines not the law. If you want a do all rifle for rabbits corvids fox,get a small c/f 17 rem,17 fireball,17 hornet,22 hornet,222 or 223.

I say old chap...do keep up...

 

Cheshire will NOT allow a C/F on first grant

Never ever had anyone complain from the noise from any rifle of mine at night while they are in front of the tv and have double glazing.

 

Nearly all guns are noisy when it is next to your ear, 100yds away its not too bad

 

 

WMR, naturally

So U/D....do the WMR and HMR overlap so significantly that the WMR would render the HMR "redundant"

 

the way the FEO was talking it seemed like he wanted me to apply for both

[Albert 888]

So why in North wales next door did I get 223 for fox and deer first application ,because I had good reason and land.

Read the guidlines. The speal you have been told is the interpritation of the feo or you best mates dad's mum said.not the law.

Spelling mistake.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Albert 888

[Albert 888]

[victorismyhero]

So why in North wales next door did I get 223 for fox and deer first application ,because I had good reason and land.

Read the guidlines. The speal you have been told is the interpritation of the feo or you best mates dad's mum said.not the law.

Spelling mistake.

YOU kknow that and I know that, unfortunately our firearms dept doesnt.....and nothing will budge em

 

moreover they will only clear the land for .22 R/F so they got me that way too...

 

Its a FIRST grant...so will be CLOSED

 

so even if I could successfully argue for a C/F they can then say the land aint suitable

 

do you think I want to spend months and more plus £££££££ arguing the toss....?

 

My Question WASNT to find out whether I should start a scrap with my FEO, or which C/F is best for fox

 

It was simply to find out whether, despite the FEO intimating he would ok both .17HMR for rabbits and crows AND a .22WMR for rabbits and FOX, there was any mileage to be gained in actually having both

 

i.e

 

do I go

 

22 LR + .22 WMR + .17HMR

 

OR

 

.22 LR and .22 WMR and not take the HMR?

 

or what?

Edited July 26, 2015 by victorismyhero

[Underdog]

A 17grn bullet under 4000fps will never get me interested and just over 4000fps slightly interested but 25grn would be better.

 

So sorry HMR don't remotely interest me, why? Because I know on a windy day it will be useless.

 

Now 30-40 grain bullets is just more reliable.

 

If a 22 can do it http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/314380-dont-believe-all-the-hype/ so can the WMR. HMR is for mice lol.

[Albert 888]

22lr is legal for fox, it mentions it in the guidlines. I wanted my 308 for fox, got told not a chance, it came back alq. Just get a good 22lr match it with some good ammo and away you go. I honestly can't comment on the wmr as never owned or shot one, underdog is the man who will set you straight about them. Hmr may have its place but not in my cabinet.

[Paddy Galore!]

I've taken rabbits with the hmr on a windy day UD, it may not float your boat but it's a very effective round none the less.

if it were me i'd be asking for 2x .22 RF, ( lr & wmr)

and an hmr.

I wouldn't personally bother with an fac air rifle, but that's only because I don't need one, it doesn't stop you asking for it though just in case.

[Guest topshot_2k]

Got both, 22WMR is great on foxes where you can't use centre fire. Not as flat as HMR but less affected by wind and it hits hard. You can get some 33grain rounds for the WMR which are flatter.

 

I would ask for 17HMR for rabbits and .22WMR for foxes, the .17hmr isnt that loud downrange with a moderator and I've shot several rabbits near each other one after the other at night so noise isn't a major issue.

Edited July 26, 2015 by topshot_2k

[Underdog]

I've taken rabbits with the hmr on a windy day UD, it may not float your boat but it's a very effective round none the less.

if it were me i'd be asking for 2x .22 RF, ( lr & wmr)

and an hmr.

I wouldn't personally bother with an fac air rifle, but that's only because I don't need one, it doesn't stop you asking for it though just in case.

Na, impossible, most of been blowing towards you

[neutron619]

I think someone in our shooting organisations should be having a word with Cheshire Firearms Licensing Department.

 

They have no legitimate or legal way to prevent you having a centre-fire if you can justify it. If you have fox on your land, you have a reason for a C/F. Do NOT take no for an answer - they CANNOT refuse you.

 

Oh - and go for the 22 mag. No particular difference in overall range or effectiveness, but I'd rather shoot Charlie with a 50gr bullet than a 17gr bullet. Just personal preference.

Edited July 26, 2015 by neutron619

[Paddy Galore!]

Na, impossible, most of been blowing towards you

lol! 'tis true! 30-40mph gusts cross wind at 80 ish yds, bowled right over. I've found the wind has just as much, if not more effect on 22lr subs at the same range, being as it takes so bloody long to get there

[victorismyhero]

I think someone in our shooting organisations should be having a word with Cheshire Firearms Licensing Department.

 

They have no legitimate or legal way to prevent you having a centre-fire if you can justify it. If you have fox on your land, you have a reason for a C/F. Do NOT take no for an answer - they CANNOT refuse you.

 

Oh - and go for the 22 mag. No particular difference in overall range or effectiveness, but I'd rather shoot Charlie with a 50gr bullet than a 17gr bullet. Just personal preference.

BUT...they can say ...first grant closed ticket ...land isnt suitable for C/F therefor you dont have good reason...THEN the fun begins....trying to find someone to argue the toss whether the land is suitable or not...I'm 61 in a couple of months...i'd like to get my ticket BEFORE i retire.....

[Albert 888]

I know of an organisation that has done a lot of good for fellow shooters, take a look at the new fac applications renewals and variation forms. It's not an easy or fun process applying or renewing for fac,I'm currently going through a similar process regarding the calibre I want and the reason I want it.