Scully Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 So roost shooting as 'prevention' is acceptable but shooting those in the back garden as 'prevention' isn't ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 I hadn't realised that civil servants are legal experts. Oh, wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchiet123 Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 So roost shooting as 'prevention' is acceptable but shooting those in the back garden as 'prevention' isn't ? No. Unless there is a farm near, whereby the owner of said farm has given you permission to shoot birds to prevent them from flying over and destroying his crop. Or you plan on growing lots of crops in your back garden, where other methods of prevention are proved to be ineffective at controlling the number of birds/protecting the crops. Think it was kind of aimed at the person with a small back garden, not much land to shoot on if any, whos taking pot shots at single birds munching on a piece of clover or wandering around in the garden. In my humble opinion of course.... as that automatically prevents me from any wrongdoing; happy to be corrected in the above- just not because of someone else's 'humble' opinion.... Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 No. Unless there is a farm near, whereby the owner of said farm has given you permission to shoot birds to prevent them from flying over and destroying his crop. I'm surrounded by arable farmland as I live in a very rural location and have permission to shoot on most of it, but I don't know where that pigeon sitting on my garden shed has just come from or where it's going next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 I'm surrounded by arable farmland as I live in a very rural location and have permission to shoot on most of it, but I don't know where that pigeon sitting on my garden shed has just come from or where it's going next. To be fair when devoting they could be going anywhere. I'm sure you're playing devils advocate, but if you're happy with people blasting pigeons with air rifles in back gardens for no other reason than the want to, fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 To be fair when devoting they could be going anywhere. I'm sure you're playing devils advocate, but if you're happy with people blasting pigeons with air rifles in back gardens for no other reason than the want to, fair enough. I don't need to 'blast' anything, so that means I'm doing it because I want to, just like everyone else on here. If that means I'm playing devils advocate then fair enough. I don't think it's a question of whether I'm happy or not; none on here are forced to kill anything; not even landowning crop growers. If they're not happy to do it there are alternatives, and there are plenty who are happy to do it for them, and to do it for free. Personally I don't believe morals have any role to play in what is essentially pest control, and whilst I can't condone anyone not abiding by the laws of the land I simply don't understand some of them. To attempt to control the killing of a pest species is to me, a contradiction in terms. There isn't even a closed season for pigeons, nor rabbits for that matter; nothing to take into account the fact that to shoot either throughout the breeding season is to condemn to death through starvation any dependants. Yet to shoot that solitary pigeon in your back garden could mean you end up prosecuted. Doesn't make any sense at all to me, but there we have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 I don't need to 'blast' anything, so that means I'm doing it because I want to, just like everyone else on here. If that means I'm playing devils advocate then fair enough. I don't think it's a question of whether I'm happy or not; none on here are forced to kill anything; not even landowning crop growers. If they're not happy to do it there are alternatives, and there are plenty who are happy to do it for them, and to do it for free. Personally I don't believe morals have any role to play in what is essentially pest control, and whilst I can't condone anyone not abiding by the laws of the land I simply don't understand some of them. To attempt to control the killing of a pest species is to me, a contradiction in terms. There isn't even a closed season for pigeons, nor rabbits for that matter; nothing to take into account the fact that to shoot either throughout the breeding season is to condemn to death through starvation any dependants. Yet to shoot that solitary pigeon in your back garden could mean you end up prosecuted. Doesn't make any sense at all to me, but there we have it. Me neither, as I've said before I couldn't care less what people do, I'm just putting forward my tuppence. If the GL were to allow pigeons shot in the garden, or anywhere people feel they want to shoot one for no or any reason then it should state that. I've also said, I love pigeon shooting, maybe its a multi modal thing, we have no alternatives to shooting, it's part of our crop protection strategy, we use gas guns, kites, rockets, falconers and shooting. My garden backs onto my farm land, I don't wait about with an air rifle to shoot a solitary pigeon watering itself in our bird bath, we shoot as smartly as possible, maximising the amount of birds shot, on crops that are being hammered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Me neither, as I've said before I couldn't care less what people do, I'm just putting forward my tuppence. If the GL were to allow pigeons shot in the garden, or anywhere people feel they want to shoot one for no or any reason then it should state that. I've also said, I love pigeon shooting, maybe its a multi modal thing, we have no alternatives to shooting, it's part of our crop protection strategy, we use gas guns, kites, rockets, falconers and shooting. My garden backs onto my farm land, I don't wait about with an air rifle to shoot a solitary pigeon watering itself in our bird bath, we shoot as smartly as possible, maximising the amount of birds shot, on crops that are being hammered. Fair enough, and again possibly playing devils advocate but not wanting to create an argument but merely pointing out the illogicality (if that's a word) of the GL, there is a thread running in the pigeon decoying section about shooting on fields on which the crop of rape has been harvested . Admittedly the OP is decrying the fact the birds have gone, but there was nothing left to protect anyhow, nor any method to ascertain what 'prevention' would have taken place even if there had been birds present, much like the solitary pigeon in the back garden. 1000 pigeons in 1000 gardens is a lot of prevention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 I personally think that we should be allowed to shoot pigeons wherever we may have permission to do so, regardless of whether there are crops to protect - they are hardly an endangered species. However, that doesn't mean that I would want to shoot them just anywhere, let alone in my garden. I do think the whole 'where has this pigeon been feeding and where will it feed next?', thing, is a little ridiculous. It is safe to assume, that MOST pigeons left to their own devices will predate on crops at some point in their lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 I personally think that we should be allowed to shoot pigeons wherever we may have permission to do so, regardless of whether there are crops to protect - they are hardly an endangered species. However, that doesn't mean that I would want to shoot them just anywhere, let alone in my garden. I do think the whole 'where has this pigeon been feeding and where will it feed next?', thing, is a little ridiculous. It is safe to assume, that MOST pigeons left to their own devices will predate on crops at some point in their lives. I truly can't think of one area of farmland where one can't legally shoot pigeons within the terms of the GL. Anyone who has the privilage of having been given permission to shoot pests on farmland need not worry where they last had breakfast, lunch or tea, or indeed where they intend to breakfast next, because, sure as God made little apples, one day soon they will be eating something on your farm and by doing so you are preventing agricultures greatest pest from doing further damage. Same goes for flighting and roost shooting. Forget the doomsday scenarios some would have you believe and crack on, because by doing so and enjoying yourself at the same time, your are benefiting agriculture as a whole, national food production and the economy as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Fair enough, and again possibly playing devils advocate but not wanting to create an argument but merely pointing out the illogicality (if that's a word) of the GL, there is a thread running in the pigeon decoying section about shooting on fields on which the crop of rape has been harvested . Admittedly the OP is decrying the fact the birds have gone, but there was nothing left to protect anyhow, nor any method to ascertain what 'prevention' would have taken place even if there had been birds present, much like the solitary pigeon in the back garden. 1000 pigeons in 1000 gardens is a lot of prevention. Again, I agree. We can only summise from time and evidence that pigeon have territories that they stick to, it's reasonable to suggest that a good feeding ground will be returned, so shooting over stubble is preventing return when the crops are at their most vulnerable. The law however, does need some way of prosecuting people just killing these animals because they are just 'there' and using the GL as an excuse. There was a case a few years back with a chap who shot a seagull for being on his roof, the guy had a licence to cull seagulls, but he acted outside of his licence, and obviously the GL, he received a (suspended) two year prison sentence, it's obviously taken seriously, regardless of how it appears not to be taken by many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drut Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Just my take:whatever opinions stated by Natural England or others,only a court can clarify the legal position with certainty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringDon Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Don't really care who is right or wrong but am concerned about what is right or wrong. Are we saying that the GL does not apply if you do not own the crops or only if the crops are actually vulnerable to attack. More specifically, I have permission to shoot on a local farmers land. Can I do this under the GL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Don't really care who is right or wrong but am concerned about what is right or wrong. Are we saying that the GL does not apply if you do not own the crops or only if the crops are actually vulnerable to attack. More specifically, I have permission to shoot on a local farmers land. Can I do this under the GL? You might not own the crop . But you are authorised to protect it buy land owner or estate . So crack on matey . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redditch Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 I don't shoot for "fun", I do it for pest control and crop protection. That said, I do enjoy my time out in the countryside (I also live in an old farm) and do enjoy pitting my skill against the flight skills of the birds, and the cunning of the fox. I try to use what is shot, crows to feed the foxes and thus keep them off the lambs, chickens, ducks and pheasants, rabbits and pigeon I freeze what I can use, but the rest also goes to the fox, as people here won't eat it unless it has a sell by date :( The poor fox, yep, he gets chucked in the hedge, as most animals won't touch him, except the odd cannibal fox or maybe a badger, and sometimes the crows will have a peck too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 I don't shoot for "fun", I do it for pest control and crop protection. That said, I do enjoy my time out in the countryside (I also live in an old farm) and do enjoy pitting my skill against the flight skills of the birds, and the cunning of the fox. I try to use what is shot, crows to feed the foxes and thus keep them off the lambs, chickens, ducks and pheasants, rabbits and pigeon I freeze what I can use, but the rest also goes to the fox, as people here won't eat it unless it has a sell by date :( The poor fox, yep, he gets chucked in the hedge, as most animals won't touch him, except the odd cannibal fox or maybe a badger, and sometimes the crows will have a peck too Yes you do I'm afraid, no matter how you dress it up. If you're not enjoying yourself then stop doing it. I do a lot of pest control also, but I don't resent doing it, I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Yes you do I'm afraid, no matter how you dress it up. If you're not enjoying yourself then stop doing it. I do a lot of pest control also, but I don't resent doing it, I love it. Isn't this the whole point? It is not one or the other, it is for the vast majority of people, both. As long as the crop is commercial and not domestic, everyone is a winner (except pigeons!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Steering away a little bit,but hitting on what was said about shooting woodies in the back garden,using bird droppings as an excuse under health reasons.There was a thread on her red Canada Geese ( a few) where pooing around a pond near a caravan site & then the tread about Buzzards getting out of control & that moved on to The Red Kits.It just seems to me that some shooters are wanting or hoping to be able to have a pop at anything,which makes all shooters look bad.I for one hope that if these later two end up on the GL,that only authorised registered pest controllers are allowed to control them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throttlemonkey Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Ok I'm now shooting wood pigeon in my garden to protect the foodstuff of my livestock . And to prevent disease to my chickens. My sole beetroot seedling is now gone, probably in the crop of the last pigeon diving into the layers pellets. And because wood pigeon tastes nice but that's not a reason under the GL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11263169/David-Cameron-shoots-pigeons-near-his-home.html I'm pretty sure no one enforces the gl on pigeons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Some people i know have 8+ acres of "garden".. I have a lot less and the ****ers will try and eat my peas. So I shoot them. And i use them either in the frying pan or freeze them for decoys on bigger fields away from my garden. I must be breaking the law of this land? It's not intentional honest. Edited July 31, 2015 by Whitebridges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingmachine Posted August 1, 2015 Report Share Posted August 1, 2015 why certain people on this forum pick holes in people just to course arguements is beyond me,i joined this site 2 years ago and i stopped coming on here not long after due to little group of arguementative persons if you got permission to shoot pigeons on a farmers grounds just shoot thgem they are a agricultueral pest and be happy whether your on grass land stubble standing just keep smiling and enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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