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Ever had that sinking feeling? (SGC renewal & FAC air Application


Danoi99
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Hi all, I have permission to shoot pigeons/ rabbits etc on some nearby farmland. The owner is happy for me to use shotgun and or air rifle (FAC power). My SGC runs out in December, but I decided to put in for the coterminous jobby now.

 

On the application form, I've answered all the questions accurately, including the medical stuff. Now I don't mind sharing the info here..........I was prescribed a low dosage of a common anti depressant (only once) in 2002. It was one prescription of 24 pills, which I didn't even take. I didn't go to see the doctor about it, I had gone to see him about a stomach issue, he could see that I wasn't looking too good.......not my usual jovial self.

 

I have never "suffered" from depression, my situation was pretty dire back then..........terrible marriage break up, ill health (stomach), lack of work (recession), loss of 3 close friends (car crash, suicide, bike crash) the **** kept coming in waves and unfortunately.............my late 20's/ early 30's were not a good time for me.

 

So when I applied for my SGC 5 years ago, my family doctor, the same doctor who prescribed the aforementioned medication was more than happy to tell the firearms licensing people that becoming depressed/ down under such strain was completely understandable, and that I had not been "suffering" from depression, nor did I have a mental health issue (clinical depression).

 

I had many meetings with my Doctor about this at the time, had to pay lots of fees for letters and reports. He graciously agreed to meet with the head of Avon & Somersets licensing dept. (by phone in the end)........and after no less than 11 months of wrangling they granted my SGC !! My FEO (Phil Baker) delivered my licence, checked my cabinet, shook my hand and I began to enjoy my shooting.

 

So why in hell have I just received a letter from them, asking for me to get my new Doctor to send them a report about the whole anti depressant issue again?? The letter states that any costs incurred will be a matter between the Doctor and myself (They are asking for some clarification about the drug, the condition I suffer from, my current treatment regime etc)

 

And as an added annoyance, i'm employed as a Mental Health Care professional and I am surprised at the sort of terminology that was used in this letter in reference to mental health matters.

 

I'm all for standing up for your rights, but there's always that nagging bit that says "don't rock the boat". I don't see why I should have to cough up yet again for a report that they have already had..., they satisfied themselves that I was suitable to be trusted with a shotgun 5 years ago based on the information they had about this tiny period of mild, non clinical depression. So why on earth do they have to go through the whole kit and kahboodle again??? So they can trust me with an air rifle??? And why am I expected to pay for it???

 

Feels like a bit of saber rattling from Avon & Somerset Constabulary..........hence my "sinking feeling"

 

Love to hear your thoughts on this...............just typing it out has been therapeutic. (Shouldn't type words like therapy..........they'll take yer guns away :lol::lol::lol: )

 

ps They spelled "Constabulary" incorrectly on their form. :yahoo:

 

 

 

 

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It strikes me very much as sabre rattling too and overly bureaucratic.

 

I know this is mentioned every time, but are you a member of a shooting organisation and if yes have you discussed this with them?

 

I understand the thought of not wanting to rock the boat, but sometimes you just have to make a noise and fight your corner.

 

I would also be inclined to write them a very business like and totally objective letter stating the facts and challenging their position.

 

Given that they originally issued the certificate and there is no material change in your circumstance you are in a position of strength to challenge them on grounds of reasonability.

 

I do suspect that you will have to get a letter from your GP stating there is no change in your medical history and therefor no reason for them to consider any increased risk of mental instability.

 

Given your expert knowledge in the subject matter if the information requested by the police seems inappropriate then it is worth highlighting that to your shooting org' if applicable. The more ammunition that you can use to discredit their approach then the better.

 

Best of luck.

Edited by grrclark
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First of all, if you are a member of BASC, get in touch with them straight away. And, as far as I know, any doctor's fees should be met by the police.

I second this from what I've heard. Any excess conditions being imposed by them should be paid for by them.

 

First point of call would probably be to ring up and have a nice chat and ask why the change

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As others have said, you need to contact your shooting organisation as soon as possible, as your circumstances have not changed since you clarified the situation to their satisfaction at last application.

They know they have you on the back foot because of your history at initial application and are simply trying it on in the hope that if they make it as difficult as possible you will simply withdraw your application. It is totally unreasonable.

In the part which states; 'If YES, please give full details' (or whatever it says) I simply write 'no change in circumstances or reoccurrence since last application'. You could add that 'current medication/treatment/condition is not applicable as I have no condition to treat'.

Your new GP will only be able to comment on your medical history as written by your former GP, so possibly his input could be classed as irrelevant. Contact your organisation asap and get them to intervene, and do not give up.

If you have already been deemed as suitable to hold SGC, and have had no further history, then please don't take no for an answer.

Edited by Scully
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Thanks for all your advice. This situation does stink a bit. I only recently joined BASC (2 days ago to be precise), so I will give them a bell tomorrow and see what they say about it.

 

I don't think they should be asking me to pay for info that they've already been given. Why do these people seem intent on stitching us shooters up ??

 

They were happy enough to let me shoot when I joined the Royal Military Police Jnr Leaders at the age of 16 !!! SLR, GPMG,.303 Bren,7.62 LMG, SA80, Lee Enfield .303 jungle carbine, Parker Hale 7.62 target rifle................now I'm 42 and I have to go cap in hand to shoot an air rifle with a bit of ooompf ??

 

Makes me want to puke.

 

Thanks again People.

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Someone is being overly cautions and it's not their wish to accept risk, so they they ask you for a report all over again. It is easy to see how they come to these decisions.

 

As above, consult your shooting org such as SACS or BASC.

 

I noticed the standard form in my area states something like - all costs of medical reports to be the responsibility of the applicant. My guess is you will end up paying if your shooting org has intervened without success.

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Have you spoken with phil? Or anyone within the licencing team? No harm in asking why they are asking for information they already have? I used to work for the AVS constabulary in their IT supoort team, and the guys in licencing are all down to earth genuine people. Id definately say call and speak with them. No harm in asking the reasons behind the request is there.

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Have you spoken with phil? Or anyone within the licencing team? No harm in asking why they are asking for information they already have? I used to work for the AVS constabulary in their IT supoort team, and the guys in licencing are all down to earth genuine people. Id definately say call and speak with them. No harm in asking the reasons behind the request is there.

Hi Shooting Egg, unfortunately Phil isn't my FEO anymore (He's a top bloke too), I'll give my current FEO a quick friendly call and ask him what the crack is. I'll let you all know how it goes................deep breath.

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and totally incapable of picking our own nose without poking our own eye out?-this is ridiculous :no:

I know several FAC holders who are evidence of this without drinking.

 

OP, this a right PIA for you, as has been said, contact a shooting organisation, I'm sure if you joined now if you're not a member already, you'd still get the right advice.

 

And stuff you paying for it, they've asked for it.

Edited by kyska
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Called them up today, they were very friendly and helpful to be fair.

 

The problem is this: They didn't actually get anything in writing from my last doctor about the whole situation, they spoke to him on the phone (I was told they'd had a meeting but that's not the case).

 

I was told that I would now need to get a letter from my current doctor (I have never met him) that says something like "I, Doctor Custard von Wellie, can confirm that in my opinion Mr Dwayne Pipe does not suffer from any illness/ condition/ syndrome that would preclude him from possessing a firearm".

 

And yes, I have to pay for the letter. I did question this guys, I tried to fight the good fight...........but they're rock solid on it..........I have to pay for the letter !! (I can feel your disgust from here, come to think of it, I think I can bloody taste it"

 

Doctor appointment next Thursday, I'll let you know if he plays ball..........and how much he charges for playing it !!!

 

To be continued....................................

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The latest update in the licensing regulations left this as a grey area sadly, David BASC has mentioned this many times.

 

I have no doubt that it will gall to have to pay for a letter, it would me too, but I do fear that you will end up with greater stress and cost should you choose to fight it.

 

It isn't fair, but there is no fairness rule in life.

 

So long as they are not being foolish, albeit a little bureaucratic, then it is maybe a small cost in the longer term :/

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Avs guys are only doing as is stated they have too. As i said in a previous post the whole team are great and will help you out at the drop of a hat. But rules are rules and they have to follow them. For tge cost of a letter (id try and get it foe nothing seeing as your previous dr didnt do what he/she said he/she they had done) i think all will be fine.

 

Look at the flip side, what if they have a different person who applied that did have health problems but they didnt do the checks, we would all be on here slating them for not doing their jobs properly and allowing some one to have firearms that shouldn't.

 

Cheers

Edited by ShootingEgg
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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks for all your words of wisdom people.

 

I have never had a problem with the Avon & Somerset Firearms dept, they have always been very polite and efficient. I suppose I was getting a bit tetchy about my medical record issue (there's an entry that was incorrectly put on my file).

 

As I said before, it took 11 months to sort out last time and I just had this feeling that I was going to get dragged through the whole sorry process again.

 

To cut a long story short, I've just got the letter from the Doc and without going over all the nitty gritty personal garb.........I'll just give you the last line: ".......Therefore, we are not aware of any factors which would cause concern regarding his re-licensing".

 

Cheers Doc, I'm fairly confident that this will get the ball rolling.

 

Hopefully the next time I see the FEO it will be when he comes round with my SGC and Firearms licence. The kettle will be on and the chocolate digestives will be neatly arranged !!!!!

 

ATB

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